Canham 617 back announced at photokina?

[michael_mutmansky1]

I had heard the Keith was to announce his new 617 back at Photokina this year. Has that happened? I did a search but was unable to find a 2000 Photokina site that had product announcements.

 

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On a similar note, I would appreciate comments on the 617 rangefinder cameras available to the market; the Fuji, the Linhof, and the Art Pan. I have seen little comparison among cameras, and precious little info at all on the Art Pan. I won't consider the V-Pan if the Canham back is available, since I have Canham gear right now.

 

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Thanks,

 

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Michael

[larry_huppert1]

I don't know if it's announced, but a couple of months ago Canham was

talking about it being available around the end of the year/early

next year. He also spoke of another project to do a simplified 6x17

sometime after he masters the roll film back.

[andrea_milano]

I actually held it in my hands on saturday when I was in Cologne. It

still looked a prototype but it was there, some details were still to

be made but the general thing was there.

About the 6x17.

If you or anybody else hasn't read anything yet of a German camera

builder called "Gilde", well, by golly! Try to see his camera (I have

got a folder somewhere but not here at the moment). The camera is

fantastic and although very expensive, if the pockets allows for it buy

the most incredible 6x17! It shoots any format between 6x6 and 6x7 (on

the same roll!), stereo isn't a problem and it uses from 72mm up until

270mm. How about that! At the kina they were next to Linhof and this

last one looked like a toy in comparison.

Greetings.

[tim_atherton2]

Cool Camera!

 

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http://www.gilde-kamera.de/

 

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Tim A

[larry_huppert1]

How do you focus the gilde-kamera? Is it some kind of coupled

rangefinder or via a ground glass? Very interesting camera!

[tim_atherton2]

I think the Gilde probably focus like both the Fuji and the Linhof

617's - dead reckoning as I recall. Though it does have a ground

glass option according to the website.

 

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Tim A

[stefan_dalibor1]

I, too, was rather impressed by the camera (inventor/producer Dr. Gilde demonstrated it to me at Fotokina)...<br>

Referring the focal length, he had even a sample of the new Schneider 400mm attached to one of his cameras, and he said that you can use the Nikkor tele lenses up to 720mm if necessary (using 2 tripods). Focus is obtained either per estimation/DOF, or by a groundglass (which is a standard accessory part) - the camera has a light-tight detachable film magazine, so you can check the groundglass at any time.<p>

I think if I were rich enough, I would buy a Gilde system immediately... it really brings together the best things from (medium format) panorama and view cameras (shift & tilt!)... I hope the Fotokina was enough marketing boost for the product to allow lowering the price due to increased sales (just dreaming :). According to Dr. Gilde, the cameras are produced on order currently due to the limited interest, explaining the high price.

[bill_glickman]

I have never seen this camera in person, but fell in love with

the specs. As per the poster above, Dr. Gilde truly took the best of

all worlds, Pans, MF with interchangelble format, stereo (the only

new stereo MF camera on the market), gg focussing, interchangeable

lenses and slight movements. I priced the camera with 3 Pan lenses,

a stereo lens pair and gg focussing...and it came out to be about

$24,000. As impressive as that camera is, the pricing drove me

away.... Maybe a larger company will buy the camera design from him

and gear up production and offer it for less $$ someday.... Dream

on...

[bill_glickman]

Ooops, back to the issue of 6x17 backs.... does anyone know if that

back Keith is coming out with is for 5x7 or 4x5? I have been baffled

why no maker has produced a 6x17 back for a 4x5 camera....Art Pan

does make one, but does not promote it...from what I heard, you have

to call Japan and talk them into building you one. It seems that is

the large market...5x7 is small compared to 4x5....does anyone know?

[john_henderson1]

How would you fit a 6x17cm back on a 4x5in (9x12 cm) camera?

17cm>12cm. It would seem to me that you would need at least a 5x7in

camera to fit such a back. (Unless the rear standards on your 4x5

camera are much larger than they ned to be.)

[michael_mutmansky1]

The back Keith is working on is for his 5x7 camera. The Art Pan back

has a 4x5 to 5x7 style adaptor 'cone' built into the back, so it fits

on regular graflok adaptors. This limits the focal lengths to about

90mm on the short end, and 180mm on the long end, I believe. It also

makes the back bulky and heavy, unfortunately.

 

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I guess the other question that's begging to be asked is 'how much?'.

I know the Art Pan back runs close to $2000, which, incidentially, is

almost the price of the Art Pan 170 camera without a lens. Has a

price been mentioned for the Canham? It's a simpler product than the

Art Pan, since it's on a flat board, and I would think the price would

need to be in the 'roll film back' realm, and not the 'panorama

camera' realm to be very marketable.

 

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One of the real bueaties of the Art Pan 170 in my mind is that you can

use your existing lenses on the camera. I have a 90mm which I fully

expect to supplant with the new 80mm SS XL, so the 90mm could go

straight to the Art Pan with no problems. Neither the Fuji or Linhof

provide that capability, as they are 'system' cameras. (As in, you

have to buy into their whole system to get started.)

 

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---Michael

[michael_mutmansky1]

I just got some more information on the 617 back from Jeff at Quality

Camera in Atlanta. He said the price is expected to come in between

$1000 and $1200. The back should be available by the beginning of

next year.

 

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There are a couple of interesting aspects of the camera that some

people may find interesting. It will use the Graflok style

attachments that Keith designed into the MQC 5x7 camera. The camera

will use a motorized advance mechanism, apparently because a manual

advance is more expensive and more prone to problems. The motor uses

a 9 volt battery, which will apparently work for a very long time.

They tested the motor and battery, and it ran continuously for 40+

hours without the battery dying. There is some kind of electronic

circuitry so the back will know what frame the film is at, and an

electronic backup so the battery can be changed without losing count.

The camera will accept 120 film only.

 

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I didn't ask about a darkslide, but I presume it has one, since it is

designed as a back. This would permit recomposition and lens changes

on the same roll of film.

 

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There is talk of Horeseman making a 4x5 to 5x7 Graflok adaptor so the

camera can be used on the Horseman cameras. This would also permit

the use of the camera on any Graflok compatable 4x5 camera on the

market. Wisner is looking into a Graflok style back for their cameras

(5x7 or 8x10 I assume). Ultimately, the method to attach the camera

to the back is fairly simple, and anyone with a camera big enough

could have an adapter made.

 

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I think it might be the ideal starting point for a home-built camera

built around the back, one with both rangefinder capabilities and

movements when desired.

 

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---Michael

[bill_glickman]

Michael, thank you for clearing up the Art Pan 6x17 back for 4x5, I

should have explained in more detail. You raise a very good point

about the Art Pan camera being able to use your own lenses. I assume

then you would have to have helicoil focussing lenses, right? And if

so, how would you switch from using your LF lenses on 4x5 then to the

Art Pan 6x17? It would have to have the same adapter board. I would

have considered this camera, but have not found any decent ways to

overcome these objections. Installing helicoil focussing rings

inside a lens is very expensive. This sure makes the Dr. Gilde look

good...assuming you are not shooting 4x5, since you would have the

same problems with lens board compatibility... I am interested in

your comments...

[michael_mutmansky1]

Bill,

 

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Actually, this is where Art Pan has departed from the group in the

6x17 market. To my understanding, there is a shallow bellows that is

used to permit focusing with the camera, so a helical cone is not

required. I have not handled the camera personally, but I have seen

photos, and have corresponded with people who own them, so please take

my information in that context.

 

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So, you do not mount in a helical. The camera is set for zone focus

for a 90mm, if you use a different focal length, you will have to add

new marks on the focus mechanism. I have been told that the camera

can handle up to a 120 or 125mm lens, but I have not heard of a lens

shorter than 90 being used. It is set up for a Copal 0 shutter, so

the 110 XL is out, unless a Copal 1 board is available as an option (I

have no knowledge of this, however).

 

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If you go to www.teamworkphoto.co.uk/Pages/artpanorama.html you will

see some specs on the camera. There is mention on that page of using

a wider lens, but no specific information. I'll email them to see

what they can offer.

 

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However, there is no tilt or shift capability, and that is one thing

these cameras should have, in my opinion. The Canham back may be the

ideal back for an enterprising person to use to make a highly capable

6x17 camera that is in the reasonable price range, unlike the Guilde.

The first reasonablly priced, well designed camera front on the market

will claim the spot, as there's probably only room for one.

[ellis_vener_photography]

I have been using the V-Pan 617 mk. III camera for a number of

years. and frankly when the Canham 617cm back makes it's

appearence I'll be in line for one of those too, that and an MQC

camera. But in the meantime there is the V-Pan. I t is a monorail

view camera (you focus via a groundglass+ britescreen

combination that uses 120 film in an interchangable

cassetteLenses mount on Linhof Technika boards,

interchangable bellows let you use any lens that fills the format

(from the 72mm XL Super Angulon out to the 1200mm T Nikkor);

and shift, tilt and swing on the front standard only. There is gear

focing and fine (slide and tighten) focusing on the rear standard I

regularly use mine with lenses from 90mm to 300mm.<P>

There is a company up in Oregon that makes an adapter that

modifies the rear part of the Vpan (the frame that holds the

cassette and the groundglass) to fit a Canham MQC. I believe

the company is Pans Pacific Northwest. I'd publish the URL but I

no longer have it. I believe the company is located in Portland

Oregon. My guess is if you found a V-pan kit today, depending on

how it is set up, the cost would be in the US$ 3500 - 5000 dollar

range, before you added lenses.

[vishal_mathur2]

I just talked to Keith Canham; more information: The back will weigh

2.2 lbs, depth is 1.5", cost $1000-1200, and it will have a flash

synch socket with a 2 second delay that can be connected to the

shutter. As long as the shutter speed is less than 2 seconds you can

have autowind. Make your own 6x17 point and shoot! There are also

rumblings of a Canham wide angle camera. I wonder what will happen to

the market for mega-buck 6x17 cameras when all the cheap Burke and

James-type 5x7s, and also the Hobo, can be adapted to use this back.

Regards, Vishal

[bill_glickman]

Mike, you wrote..... The Canham back may be the ideal back for an

enterprising person to use to make a highly capable 6x17 camera that

is in the reasonable price range, unlike the Guilde. The first

reasonablly priced, well designed camera front on the market will

claim the spot, as there's probably only room for one.

 

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I totally agree with this! I will definetly be an early

customer. And yes to the previous poster, if Keith, or anyone else

makes this into a 6x17 camera, that uses keith's lens boards, i.e.

small Toyos, then this would be a sure winner! It is about time!