Do I have enough light for this group shot?

[tom_jenner1]

Hey All,

 

My 20th reunion is coming up in September and I offered to do the photography.

One of the shots will be a group shot with about 100 people. I have 2 Bowen

Esprit 500's and I'm about to pick up a couple of AB1600's.

 

Will 4 strobes at about 2300 W/S be enough? Should I plan on perhaps renting a

2400 W/S power pack and a couple heads in addition?

 

Also, since I like to be prepared, could someone please recommend me a book on

shooting large groups of people?

 

I have an AIS 28/2.8 lens. Considering the 1.5x crop factor, is this ideal?

 

Thanks in advanced!

 

-Tom

[Matt Laur]

What can you tell us about where, and under what circumstances, the shot will be taken? Can't comment on the 28mm if we don't know your distance from the group and the footprint they'll have on the floor (or whatever) on which you'll put them.

[picturesque]

Look at the following thread.

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00B5iJ

 

Do a search. There are others.

[savagesax]

Pose them on bleachers, 3 rolls, be careful of your lighting that you don't nuke the front roll and the back roll is under exposed. Use a tall 8 foot ladder to get up high enough to see everyones faces. Taller people in the back, shorter people up front. Did I say to make sure you can see everyones faces? Thats sometimes the hardest part.

 

4 lights sounds like overkill. I can't give advice about your lighting system, because I don't use these strobes. I'd sure try to use large 60 inch umbrellas to help cover and soften the harsh strobe lights and also use 10 to 13 foot stands and place them as far back as you can so the light fall off will be marginal.

[tom_jenner1]

The shot is going to be in a ballroom (no bleachers) so I was thinking perhaps having 4 rows with one sitting, one kneeling(sp?), short people standing and then one row of tall people standing. That way I can get everyone's face.

 

I have tall light stands with 48 inch umbrellas.

 

Nadine, thanks for the link.

 

I don't know if 4 lights is overkill, if anything it allows me to increase my DOF, but better an overkill than an underkill :>)

[savagesax]

hmm, hehe, guess my advice sucked! Sorry you didn't like it! For safety on your part, perhaps go to the site a week or 2 before the reunion and experiment. Thats the best way to get the exposures correct and decide how many lights you want to fire off, the locations of the lights, the height of the lights, and the angles. Have someone wear eye glasses so you can see if your strobes are casting reflections on the eyes, see if the 4 rolls are well exposed. If you are an f-stop or 2 off from the from to the back, you will be doing some serious photoshop adjustments. When taking the pics you may wish to leave a portion of the bottom of the image open to write the name and date of the reunion. Best of luck.

[savagesax]

opps my brain is fried - not rolls, but rows.

[picturesque]

Tom, your plan means there will be 4 rows of 50 people? You're not going to be able to see faces very well, especially if you don't have the back row standing on chairs. Is there any way you can get on a tall ladder? Or does the location have a second story or mezzanine where you can shoot down? Look at Danny Wong's response in the link I posted.

[richard_cochran]

I just shot a group of roughly that size last night. We did it outdoors, a bit before sunset. I used two 500 W-s monolights, direct and undiffused, and the strobe was more powerful than ambient at 1/250. It would have been nice to soften the lights a bit, but softboxes/umbrellas aren't terribly effective at the large distances I was using, and they act as a sail to catch the wind and knock the lighstands over, as well as reducing the amount of light, hence I went for the direct approach. I got <i>f</i>/8 out of the strobes at ISO 100. In retrospect, maybe I could've slowed the shutter down and picked up more ambient light. Anyway, I suspect you've got enough light overall.

<p>

I agree that your big problem is going to be posing them so that you can see them all. I stood on top of a ten foot tall ladder <em>and</em> had the group stand on steps. There were still a few people slightly hidden, and several caught in shadows. There were about 6 rows of about 15 each, for 90 total people. Faces are pretty small, but recognizable.

<p>

The result of my effort last night is <a href="http://webs.lanset.com/rcochran/SmallGroup.jpg">here</a>.

[tom_jenner1]

Nope Nadine, 100 people=4 rows of 25. I do like your ladder or mezzanine advice.

 

Bob, your advice didn't suck! I appreciate your thoughtful input. I'll definately go in a few weeks early.

 

Richard, that's an interesting idea. I was so focused on an indoor shot that I didn't consider there might by a nice chance for an outdoor shot. I'll scout the location (but being Seattle, it may be raining that evening although we have nice Septembers). I love the warm colors in your link. What lens did you use?

[picturesque]

Oops, I'm bad at math...

[DickArnold]

I have done a lot of this stuff. I do not like rows. Get a six foot step ladder. Group them in a semi-circle that fits in the view finder. You will see more faces. Your lighting distances will be reduced and you don't shoot any knees which dominate most bleacher photographs. I have photographed groups from ladders, hotel balconies, roofs and anything I could stand on. You can do cheer leading and get everybody to yell something which I often did to put some life into the group. It turns out to be fun. Getting them closer to you also simplifies your lighting problems. Get your lights up in the air.

[richard_cochran]

<cite>I love the warm colors in your link. What lens did you use?</cite>

<p>

The warm colors are at least partly a result of the color of the background building, but probably also a result of the fact that there was some fill from open blue sky. The fill was much cooler than the light sources, so the lights look warm by comparison. I used my D200 with the kit 18-70 lens (white balance manually set to flash). I don't have the original with its EXIF data handy, but I suspect it was zoomed to around a 24mm focal length; definitely not as wide as it could go, but not too far from it.

[kaiyen]

Dick - you literally use a giant semi-circle? All one level?

 

The suggestion to get them to yell something is a very good idea. Probably not for "the" shot but get at least one like that. I just did a wedding where I did that (and I did _not_ have enough light - I have no idea they wanted something that big - about 40 people, indoors, with just my on camera flash). 2 shots smiling, the last one I told them "yell! be happy! whooooooooo!" and I got some great expressions on the 15 or so people who were actually lit :-)

 

allan

[DickArnold]

Yeah, they gather fairly close to the ladder, fit them into the viewfinder, and take some pictures. The higher you get the more they have to look up and the higher you get the closer the faces get. I did some of my best groups from roofs. Indoors with strobes you will get light fall off as the square of the distance but they are closer and if you curve them some the light will stay more even. I used to make my wedding groups talk to me also. It prevents American Gothic expressions.

[tom_jenner1]

Dick and Allen, thanks for the useful tips.

 

Richard, I've got the 18-70 also. I'll use that lens. Thanks!

 

I appreciate all of your input!