Potential Scam

[issamikel]

I have a suspected scam to report and ask about. Has anyone received a

fishy-looking offer recently in response to postings about gear for sale?

 

I received an email purporting to be a buyer for a lens I listed on this site.

The introductory email even had what seems to be a faked photo.net disclaimer,

pasted below. Except I had not received an email from photo.net notifying me

that they had given out my email address to this person. (I don't know how they

found my email address, perhaps on my web site or ebay.)

 

Then the person proceeded to offer me *more* than my asking price, a clear

tip-off. Also, he wouldn't give me an address. Instead, to "save [me] the

trouble of shipping," he wanted to send me cashiers check and have his "shipping

agent" pick up the lens.

 

Fortunately, aside from the various fishy aspects of the whole offer, a friend

of mine who used to work at a bank informed me of an old scam whereby someone

sends you a cashier's check to purchase something, then cancels it before the

money clears. Apparently, the money shows up in your account after a day or two,

but that balance is a provisional credit from the bank until the money clears. I

don't know if the system still works that way, but apparently this person thinks

it does. When I confronted the would-be buyer, I never heard from him again.

 

Here is the disclaimer and some excerpts from the emails. Has anyone seen

something similar?

 

----

 

 

**************************************************************************

 

Dear Issa Mikel:

 

The message below is from a another member of photo.net concerning

your photo.net classified ad.

 

If you suspect this message is a scam, please contact

photo.net using our Contact Us Form: http://www.photo.net/contact-us ,

of forward this email to gc-complaints@photo.net . This will allow

us to ban the scammer from our membership list.

 

Please do NOT report this message to your ISP as spam. Since it was

sent from the photo.net server, reporting this message as spam will

result in photo.net being placed on your ISP's blacklist, not the

scammer. If you do report this message as spam, we will be obliged

to remove your email from our mailing list, which will prevent you

from receiving ANY communications via email via photo.net concerning

your classified ads.

 

Sincerely,

photo.net Administration

 

**************************************************************************

 

"Please forward me your final asking price only as i am ready to pay $1,500.

Also indicate if you would accept a Certified Money Order Payment or Cashiers

Cheque for payment.Also state which you will be able to have cashed instantly at

your BANK as i would not like delays on this transaction."

 

"Thank you for your quick response. I dont want you to worry yourself about the

shipping of the Mint 90mm Elmarit-M f/2.8 , my shipping agent will come over to

pick it up.

 

All i want you to do is give me your details;

 

Full Name:

Address:

CellPhone Number:

Cost of the Mint 90mm Elmarit-M f/2.8 :

Method Of Payment (Cashiers Cheque OR Money Order):

 

Also I will like you to know that the payment will cover the cost of the Mint

90mm Elmarit-M f/2.8 and shipping as well. Once you recieve the payment, I will

like you to have it cashed, You will then deduct the cost of the Mint 90mm

Elmarit-M f/2.8 and have the balance sent to my shipping agents who will come

over for the pick-up of the Mint 90mm Elmarit-M f/2.8 on my behalf."

[see_r]

Issa,

 

That has all the earmarks of a scam...you should definitely report it to gc-complaints@photo.net

[mike dixon]

It is definitely a scam. The cashiers check or money order is fake. After your bank discovers this, they will deduct the amount from your account, and you will have lost the lens and the amount of the phony check.

 

Forward the email to gc-complaints@photo.net

[William Kahn]

It's a variation of a Nigerian scam.

[issamikel]

I definitely will. Please be on the lookout for this. I'm sure he will try to scam others.

[art_haykin]

This scam is as old as water. It was attempted on me in the '70s at my retail store. When I refused the guy, he left hurriedly, but I took down his plate number. When he was caught, he had a bunch of phony checks and money orders in his car and a bundle of cash.

[brucecahn]

In any sale make sure you have real cash in hand before you surrender the equipment. I take cashier's checks almost daily. I hold on to the equipment until my bank pays off on them. The only exception would be when you send a piece of equipment to an ESTABLISHED DEALER for sale.In that case he will examine it and either send you a check or return the merchandise. This applies only to dealers in your own country. I am a photo dealer.

[bobatkins]

"I take cashier's checks almost daily. I hold on to the equipment until my bank pays off on them"

 

Just because the bank pays doesn't mean you're safe. If the bank finds out 3 weeks later that the cashier's check was bogus, it's generally you who is the loser, not the bank.

 

This is one of the things this particular scam depends on. You get the money from your bank so you think all is OK - until 3 weeks later the letter from the bank arrives telling you they are taking the money back!

[brucecahn]

Bob: What bank pulled this on you? They are supposed to make sure it is good before cashing it.

[kelly_flanigan1]

Bruce; what happens is the bank shows the deposit is credited to you operating acoount after a few days to a week. Then say 2 to 6 weeks later it gets yanked back; the deposit is tainted. The account gets debited with the amount of the deposit WEEKS after the ill money order, cashiers check, or check is deposited. Sometimes this "rippling" effect happens long after you have sold the widget to the chap who gave you the cashiers check. Thus after being burned a few times one takes the phrase "They are supposed to make sure it is good before cashing it." as just it might be ok; not ok. Its a fools game to assume the faker/scammer is really going to get a real job and pay one back for the loss. There are alot of fake casiers checks. Once one has been burned royally one gets a less trusting attitude. At my shop we had a check drawn on a large bank 40 miles away in August 2006 bounce in late December 2006. In the secure world of college business all checks are good and clear in a few days.:) What Bob says it true; you as seller "feel good" that the check cleared. Thanks the CON in confidence.

[kelly_flanigan1]

Old variants are they give you a cashiers check more than the sale; you give them cash back too. Thus you are out goods and actual cash. <BR><BR>Another Nigerian scam is they send you wad of fake bills thru the mail; you send them real cash; a percentage to get even more fake bills sent to you. There are hundreds of Nigerian princes that have died off with no next of kin; with folks trying to give away the stockpile of money they saved.:) <BR><BR>In many states its a felony not to make good on a ill check, money order or cashiers check; IF the instrument is above XYZ dollars. Thus if you are in a 100 buck state; one might get a chap who pays with three 90 dollar money orders for a 270 buck lens; and thus the DA has less teeth into the CONS behind.<BR><BR> Many of theses cons are as old as water like Art mentioned. They still work because the general public is often street wise and gets conned.<BR><BR>

[raymond_sofia]

You guys need to do your homework before purchasing ANYTHING on the net. I stay away from things overseas because of these scams!

 

My side business is Identity Theft Shield through Pre-Paid Legal Services, Couldn't manage without it. Learned more than I could have ever imagined

[brucecahn]

Kelly: I just had a little meeting at my bank this morning on the subject of bank checks being cashed then declared no good. The asst mgr in charge of the money has been at Citibank for many years. He says that it is impossible. A bank csnnot declare another bank check no good, once cashed. He says it has never happened at Citi and never will. Maybe you should change banks.

[kelly_flanigan1]

Bruce ; young men know the rules; old men know the exceptions.... Once you actually have had a check reversed or bounced hopefully you will learn exceptions. <BR><BR>The world is riddled with scams. A check, cashiers check, fake money order that is shown as a credit on a bank statement can be then shown later as a debit when the item bounces weeks or months later. When a rash of fake cashiers checks flood the market; there can be a rippling effect and credits turned later into debits as the fake items get discovered. Having lost money due to fake cashiers checks; bounced checks; checks that were reversed 3 months later; what matters is reality; not a newbie still at the teat bankers preppie opinions. Once a business has been burned, normally one gets a more vigilant stance and realizes that exceptions due occur. In credit card tranactions all a buyer has to do is say they got swindled by you as a seller and the money transfer can be halted during the dispute. Often they side with the buyer. With this type of thing the money may have already been deposited to your account that accepts credit card money; they it gets yanked back during the dispute. <BR><BR>If the check you recieved was for goods and the buyer is in bankruptcy; the court can also get into your hide becuase the items were not needed to stay solvent.<BR><BR> EVEN if they company says you are a critical vendor, say toilet paper, water, electricity; film or lens for a studio the bankruptcy courts have pierced the "critical vendor" shield wide open. Thus if you got a check from a photo studio for a hasselblad lens for a grand in early 2004; and they were in bankruptcy in late 2003; you might get a letter from the bankrupty attorneys demanding the 1000 dollars back today. THey can ask this EVEN if the SOB's still owe 4 grand on UNpaid invoices to you. Once the federal bankruptcy court rules you owe it you can still try to settle for say 30 to 80 percent with the bankrupty attorneys. If not paid the court can have it yanked out of your account; along attorney fees for being a troublesome chap. In a case where I sold super critical items; I had to pay back ALL the 3 to 4 grand received after bankruptcy. This is after messing with attorneys; and settling out of court. Thus if you sell expensive widgets to stangers; you might want to know if its paid with a business check thats from a company thats formally in trouble. None of the bankers, slick buyers are going to repay these losses. If you got paid in actual cash;t hen its abit harder for the courts to find versus an actual check. The Sharks/attorneys send a you as a business a "you are guilty; pay up letter" to everyone who did business after the formal date. Thus if you sold a lens today for 1000 bucks and they paid for it with a company check; you might get a bankrupty court letter in 2009 or 2010 demanding the 1000 bucks back. Ballsy sharks also send out letters asking for money back on money you received BEFORE the formal date too.<BR><BR>In a business; many folks deposit checks into an operating checking account; they do not "cash" the instrument for actual cash. Maybe this is where the Citi chap is confused. The actual check is credited to an account say in 2 to 5 days; then once it bounces it shows up as a reversed credit; ie a debit. The longest I have seen is 4 months; usually a check bounces in less than 3 to 4 weeks; many less than a week. Nobody who really preaches that all items goes thru in a few days really has the guts to repay folks who have been burned. The tire to the road would be to have simpltons have there own checking accounts debited with each exception as a learning experience.