Newcomer advice needed on flash

[elizabeth_morrissey]

Is there any sort of "Bible" for photographers, a book every photographer should read before doing a wedding or paid assignment. I have a lot of books, just want to make sure I'm not missing anything.

[ian_cooke1]

I think some people have valid arguments regarding your work Mary. But as long as you are completely open and honest with your clients about your level of experience and abilities then no worries... however... the comment on your website about doing photography for 10 years could be misleading and definately doesn't fall in line with the quality of your work.<p>

I really doubt that "pros" feel threatened by you or other beginners starting out in wedding photography. If they do, then they really have no business calling themselves a "pro". The concern is more in the fact that wedding photography is something that has traditionally been unfortunately labeled as one of the lowest forms of photography around because it is so full of beginners, amateurs, and cheesy traditional images. The image has certainly changed recently except that I think there are still a ton of people with little or no experience able to jump right in and shoot weddings for $1000 (or free) when they really don't even know the basics of photography. That just produces low-quality work that lowers the perception and integrity of the entire wedding industry. So "real" professionals may not be "directly" effected or threatened, but the overall value of the market is lowered and the perception of other wedding photographers is harmed. <p>

Then of course there's the whole issue of your responsibilty to capture once in a lifetime memories when you are not really qualified to do so. We hear all the time about brides who are unhappy with their wedding photos and hate their photographer. Maybe they are too nice to say so directly to your face, but it's interesting to hear what people really think. You have to be able to take all sorts of criticism...no matter how good or experienced you are.<p>

[picturesque]

Probably most consider Steve Sint's "Wedding Photography: Art, Business and Style" the bible, but that's open to debate since newer books such as Glen Johnson's "Digital Wedding Photography" address digital shooting more. None of the books on wedding photography, however, are going to give you complete information about the techniques and concepts you need to know every time you go out and shoot a wedding. Exposure and lighting are two areas that are very broad and can't possibly be covered in one book about wedding photography. You might try "Understanding Exposure" and "Mastering Flash Photography", but these are not specifically about weddings.

[nusret_agovic1]

Mary,

 

The rookies facing critics behave typically in two ways:

 

-Accept critique and show gratitude and gratefulness and use expert opinion to progress

 

-Reject critique and blast critics trying to protect their ego

 

 

You asked for the equipment advice but also gave link to your web site inviting the others to see your work.

 

After few IMHO realistic reviews of your work you end up calling others cruel, arguing that everything is OK with your photos, and finish with something like: 'Just to hell tell me what flash and what lens to buy and don?t bother to comment my photos!'

 

The reason the other are so 'cruel' reviewing your work is very simple: they are experts. They see things your clients (and unfortunately you) don't. You can see that your work is not up to work of seasoned pros but can not explain why. Your only comfort is that it is normal because you are beginner and you charge less.

 

If you expect that your work will automatically progress with better equipment, higher price and by number of weddings - you are wrong: you have to work on your skills and MOST IMPORTANTLY: you have to be your 'cruelest' critic!

 

Good luck.

[wingedrabbit]

Yes Mary, this is a great place to learn. I'm going to check out that flash tutorial too.<br>

<br>

Also, you might want to watch what you post. If one of your customers search on yahoo for your name.<br>

<br>

<a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Mary+Beth+Morrissey" target="_blank">Google Search</a><br>

<br>

They'll come to this site and (if they sign in) they can view your posts here. I think that has bitten a few pros in the butt.

[l_e]

Mary if I were you I would take everything with a grain of salt. Your clients really like your work so you MUST be doing something right. Could you be doing things a bit better? I am sure you could since everyone could do things a bit better. I haven't looked at your site so I can't comment on your work.

 

I also can't tell you the best flash to use. But I can tell you to look at other wedding photographers' websites and find a few you really like. Study their work and try to figure out how they are getting their results. You could even ask them a few questions.

[elizabeth_morrissey]

THanks LE, I agree with everything you said and thanks for the advice about checking out other photographer's websites.

[catherine_oostdyk]

Hi Mary Beth,

 

I also use the 450D and I HIGHLY recommend getting the Tamron SP AF28-75/2.8 XR Di LD

 

http://www.photo.net/equipment/tamron/28_75_Di/

 

The kit lens that comes with the XT and XTi are very slow and I've found the quality of the images isn't nearly as good as from my Tamron. I only pull out the kit lens for wider angle shots in tight spaces and then I only shoot at f8 or higher.

 

I also second getting the 580ex flash. I love mine very much =) My backup flash is a Sigma EF 500 DG Super. If you're tight on money I recommend getting the Sigma first and then the 580ex when you've more money. The Sigma is slightly less powerful and feels a lot cheaper compared to the 580 but it's an exceptional deal and quite comparable.

 

And about the comment that your images aren't "finished", I think they were just trying to say that you should only show your very best photos and make sure that they are touched up exactly how you would if you had them printed for the client. An example in your gallery is the photo of the guy putting his tie on. It's so dark, you can hardly see the guys facial expression. That photo could be brightened up in PS to make it look better.

 

Something else that will help you is shooting in RAW if you're not already. Here's an interesting page on the subject: http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/RAW-file-format.htm<div></div>

[lou korell]

Mary Beth,

 

First, I hope you are not offended by constructive criticism. You are asking for answers and you are getting them. Why bother to ask basic questions like, "what flash do I use?", if you already have all of the answers?

The reson I say that is that a professional wedding photographer already knows what they need to shoot a wedding. Since you have just started, others will offer what information they can based on what information you have given us. You posted a link to your website.

Do you only want us to say "wow what great pictures" or do you want "real" information about how you can improve?

 

No one here will ever tell anyone not to go into the business. It's fun to shoot weddings. But as soon as you attach a fee - any fee - you are now calling yourself a professional. Other professionals have an interest in maintaining the quality and integrity of the industry so as not to create confusion amongst potential customers about what constitutes a quality product.

 

The feedback you are getting is not meant to insult you, but only to guide you towards making your contribution to the wedding photography business in the most professional "best practices" way.

Learning is a constant activity no matter how many years of experience you have. I have been shooting for over 30 years and I still buy "how to" books and attend seminars. There are always things to learn. Please don't be offended as a beginner when others tell you what information to go after. It will help you believe me.

 

When you title a post "Lost in this big world" you are in essence saying "I need help". Embrace that help and keep a positive outlook on where you want to go and you will succeed. Ask for only technical data, and your professional career as a wedding photographer may be short lived. We all learn from each other.

 

As for equipment...buy the best gear you can afford. If you shoot Canon, get the best cameras (at least two)and the best lenses, and flashes you can at the moment. If you desire even better gear, start saving up for it and as you shoot you will learn what it is you are missing from the way you'd like to shoot. That will dictate what gear purchase will be your next goal.

 

Experience will tell you a lot about what you need, and what you need to do next for yourself.

 

Best of luck,

 

Lou

[christopher hartt dallas]

I can't really add anything more constructive about the photography aspect of your question, but you might want to be careful about the representation you make to your clients. When you've collected the retainer for those 7 weddings, have you clearly stated - in writing (somewhere in your contract) that you've never actually shot a wedding before and that the clients are contracting with you on that basis? The nicest clients can turn on a dime when the pictures don't stack up to expectations or meet a basic level of competency for someone who holds themself out as a wedding photographer. I've had friends and students who've been sued by irate clients for less than competent wedding photography. Do you have professional liability insurance to cover this possibility? Do you have you clients sign any kind of waiver acknowledging that you are an inexperienced photographer? Your rates, although not excessive, does imply a certain level of competency (and experience?) Although this kind of suit usually doesn't result in large damage awards (if any), in this age of information availability and the internet, being sued by a client can seriously damage your reputation.

[fotografz]

Mary Beth, lots of people will have this idea and that idea concerning your work to date

(which IMO is a nice thing you do for those who can't afford a "Perfect Pro" ... which of

course doesn't exist : -). I'd just say try to keep your subjects from looking into direct

sunlight, and do what you've done with your landscape and kid portrait work.

 

You have a bunch of weddings booked, but I presume at budget pricing, so let's try to

keep the gear costs down.

 

FLASH

 

I suggest starting with a used Canon 420EX ETTL to begin with, B&H has one for $119. OR

a new Canon 430EX with ETTL-II for $240. ( a new 580EX is $400. in comparison). Later

when you gain momentium, and more cash, you can get the bigger flash ... which is also a

master controller flash that will also fire the 420 or 430 flash as a slave ... giving you

multiple ETTL flash ability for more complex lighting scenarios (once you get basic flash

work down pat).

 

LENSES:

 

 

I also endorse the Tamron 28-85/2.8, my shooting partner used this lens for awhile and

the pics were nice. More speed does help.

 

All the best in your venture.

[nancy s.]

Yeah.. it is a big world and you don't REALLY want to get lost.

 

Sometimes critique comes across as harsh. If it comes from your clients (and it will someday.. happens to the best) it can really cut.

 

One place I suggest you go that is just full of information is here:

 

http://groups.msn.com/Asktheoleproaboutphotography/theroleoflightinginphotography.msnw

 

http://groups.msn.com/Asktheoleproaboutphotography/joezeltsman.msnw

 

No matter how long you do this you can always learn more.

I started out and was told I had a great 'eye" but it lacked structure and education. I was crushed.. LOL

 

It did lack structure and I did get an education that continues to this day.

Keep an open mind and no matter how much your clients love your work, give it your own hard critique. The words here may have been blunt but they were meant to point you in the direction of learning and improvement for the most part.

 

Learn, Improve, Keep an Open Mind and Reach for the Stars.

[picturesque]

I would say that the Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 lens, while good, is a little too long for general work. The 17-50mm f2.8 is a great focal length range, and if you end up getting a full frame digital, can be sold later.

[agaimages]

Yeah, most of the comments are right - not to kid you Mary Beth, all that know anything beyond basics can see that you're at your baby steps with this (but we all started somewhere and somehow).

 

 

 

My advice, take all the links from here - read and read and read on technical stuff - practice on your family and friends - have fun with it. Take look at other photographer's sites - literally try to mimic them on composition... look for ideas... your own will come to you with time - now it's time to learn and make yourself better.

If you need any further advice, don't hesitate to ask more questions here (please do understand that many pros are just frustrated by newcomers with cameras not knowing anything about photography and might have mistaken you for one), the process to better yourself, establish your business isn?t an easy one - you need lots of investment in gear, workshops, learning and time -if you're prepared to do that I'm sure you'll be well respected here with time.

Very best of luck :)

[conraderb]

Your pictures are good enough.

 

it's quite simple: either you have the gear or you don't.

 

at a minimu, you should have:

 

2 bodies

at least two lenses

two flashes

lots of memory cards

and a tripod

 

you have two of everything b/c you always need a backup.

 

if you don't have a backup, then you can't be reliable and you can't consider yourself very serious.

 

 

get a SECOND body ASAP. borrow beg or steal or buy.

 

you want to talk about tight budget? two years ago I had a problem backing up some files. I had to pay $2250 to get them back. that sucked. THAT is a budget problem.

 

Not having the right gear to do the job is NOT a budget problem - it means that you are starting too early or aren't thinking things through.

 

that said, you need a flash. if you are smart and hardworking, get a vivitar 285 or a sunpak 333 and figure it out. the former is $80 on eBay, the latter is $20 if you can find them.

 

I became very knowledgeable about the gear I use (canon, specifically) before I spent a cent on canon gear.

 

www.the-digital-picture.com has some good, reader-friendly reviews.

 

spend a lot of time reading online.

[edsel_adams]

Best advice is to study some of the excellent books on wedding photography(Andy Marcus, Bambi Cantrell, to name a few), and see what the real pros shoot. When your work technically meets or beats theirs, you are ready to book weddings.

 

 

I always considered myself lucky having apprenticed with several photographers, before I hung out my own shingle. It was they, that cut into my bones on a weekly basis. However, their criticism molded my skills, and allowed my talents to emerge.

 

 

And the most basic of all skills needed, is to be able to use lighting to lower contrast.

[picturesque]

Conrad--Mary has a back-up body, even if it is a film body. Nothing wrong with that (assuming one also brings film). She also has two lenses and a tripod. About the only thing she doesn't have from your list are two flashes, and I think she could at least get by with the on-camera flash as back-up for the beginning events (not ideal but OK until she can get another flash). And we don't know how many memory cards she has, but let's not start in on RAW vs jpeg. I'd add many, many rechargeable AA batteries, and at least one extra camera battery. Also, Mary, be sure you have supplies (batteries and film) for the film camera as well.

[dnmullaney]

Mary Beth, you live CT; I'm sure there are photographers for whom you might assist. Call them all. I did and have been lucky enough to learn by working with three photographers I called [i took a porfolio and cold-called everyone with a studio and phoned the rest].

 

There are a lot of good fill flash resources on the net. Check with your local arts council or similar to see if they offer a course on lighting/flash.

 

Consider traveling to a seminar: Maine Workshops offers many and I think Hallmark in MA might have some. Come down to Durham, NC and take a class with the Center for Documentary Studies; they offer some short coures. Get your butt into NYC for some classes. It's fun, inspirational, and you'll be surrounded by others with a desire to learn about photography.

 

I look often at WPJA.com for inspiration. I really like the style of many of the talented photographers who've been invited to join WPJA. Plus, you'll locate photograhers in your area. I've been amazed at the full time pros who offer insight, information, and guidance.

 

I buy wedding magazines, read books, and shoot personal work.

 

Another inspirational angle is to constantly google wedding photographers in big cities and check out the portfolios of random shooters.

 

For digital shooters, unfortunately, the newer equipment [flash + camera body combos]is the best we've seen. It aint cheap, but it aint bad when you consider the cost of film based practice. Consider buying used lenses from keh.com in atlanta.

[robbie_caswell]

I highly endorse the advice to seek a second shooting job for many reasons. If that doesn't work, seek out a local weekly newspaper to freelance for a press pass a liscense to shoot anything and everything. I can't tell you how many times I got my image, and continued to shoot and experiment. Many of the local events you will cover will require some of the same skills as a wedding photographer. Managing VIP's for a group shot, indoor/outdoor use of flash, and weekly assignments keep you working and experimenting. Many of the venues are also used for receptions.

 

Winning awards lends a sense of credibility and opened doors for seconding with a local pro.

[lou korell]

Mary Beth,

 

 

If you look at your first wedding gallery down towards the bottom, there are some group pictures. They were shot with the sun glaring in the people's faces. In one, a man who looks to be the father of the bride has his eyes closed. The others are blasted with sun and way overexposed. That series is mostly all like that. Those are the kinds of pictures I was referring to earlier. Knowledge of light and practice with fill flash possibly could have made these acceptable. Otherwise, your compositions are fine. I was mostly talking about exposures.

 

Also, moving them to a shadier area or at least less bright would have been better too.

 

That's the kind of stuff most of us have had to learn by making some mistakes. With your eye for composition you will do very well, as long as you learn more about lighting.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Lou

[fotografz]

Nadine, I wasn't aware of the new AF 17-50/2.8 Di II LD ASPH Tamron lens. I agree, that

focal length would be a better zoom range for Mary Beth's 1.6X crop frame digital camera.

Being a newer lens, it may be hard to find used. So, it depends on whether the $440.+

shipping new price tag will fit her immediate budget given the more immediate need for a

decent flash.

 

Another route would be a couple of used fixed focal length lenses to supplement the

existing zooms. I only suggest that after looking at Mary Beth's available light work, both

with children and some of her wedding shots.

 

A used Canon 20/2.8 for about $250. would give her the equivalent of a 32mm which

generally is about as wide as you really want for shooting people. Another $75. gets her a

new 50/1.8 II ... or if the funds are available: $250 could provide a used 50/1.4 for a

80/1.4 field of view on the digital Rebel. IMO, just about an entire wedding can be shot

with a 32mm and 80mm field of view. And, on the back-up camera they are 20mm and

50mm.

 

Just an alternative consideration.

[robbie_caswell]

Listen to Marc Williams. This weekend, I spent a few hours scrolling through the 9000 posts he has made trying to find kernals of wisdom and to benefit from his experience.

 

Others have made good points to consider if you can set aside your emotion.

 

I'm not trying to be cute or rude when I say you need to get liability insurance. Just part of the job you have undertaken.

[stephen dohring]

I think if you read the early posts the tone is not of negativity but of truth, helpfulness and encouragement. I bet your are already a better shooter just from reading the posts and the critiques.

 

I bet you won't put people in direct sunlight and watch the shadows right? If you don't know what you don't know or don't strive to improve and keep learning you can just make the same mistakes for years. You can look at great photos or you can study them. Where is the light comming from? why is this a great picture? what setting could the camera have been on? where does the depth of field start and end. What are the compositional elements that make this work?, how does the background come into play? Following a pro is the best way. If it's your passion you will find away to learn and improve. Be humble, thankful and soak up everything you can. Read the posts as helpful and you will see the tone in a different way. Print this stuff out, work hard and re-read and look at your stuff in six months - you will be so happy to have gone through this wake up call so to speak. It all starts with a change in thought process. Everyone here would love to see improvement - work on your photography put some new stuff on her after your next couple shoots and watch the support you get.

[aka eve adams]

Mary,

 

I have posted on here and received some pretty harsh comments at times, BUT I have also received much information. Until i first found this site, i thought i was a pro. Oh lord, when i look back i cringe! It is like maturing. When you are 18 you think you know everything! Then as you grow up a bit, you look back and realize the one thing you didn't know is that you knew nothing! :)

 

That happened to me... I realized how much i had to learn and it scared the crap out of me! All of my clients were happy too. Eventually luck runs out, and you need to be able to rely on superb technical skills. I too am a budget photographer now, building portfolios and clients. Just because they are happy with what i provide now, doesn't mean i shouldn't strive to improve and provide ABOVE their expectations.

 

My first post was in regards to wedding photography... i didn't know what gelling the flash was, dragging the shutter, anything more complex then iso, aperture and shutter speed. I knew how to use flash according to my chart, but when they would say put your flash 1 stop below the ambient.. i thought what?!!

 

I have read a few of my posts and actually been moved to tears by the harsh responses i've received, but when i thought back, even though they could've worded it more nicely, more constructively, they were at least partially correct.

 

Some people never get to see their weaknesses, here is a chance for you to improve, take lemons and make lemonade girl! I am a work in progress too, so i understand where you are at. Ignore the truly mean posts, accept the harsh but true ones, and GROW! :) Be thankful for those that care more about helping you improve, than kid gloving. In the long run you will appreciate it. No harshness intended to my post, i truly want to help. Don't be offended. Most people on here are very well meaning, and some of the ones that come off harsh, i've emailed privately, and they told me their post wasn't intended to be mean, just help me to the fullest.

 

Now for the question you actually asked, i second the 430ex.

[elizabeth_morrissey]

Thanks Eve , especially after getting some sleep I sort of woke up this morning with the revelation that I have a lot to learn but I do think I have the courage to do it and I am goign to start dedicating much more of my time to educate, practice and learn. Maybe I have gotten ahead of myself with booking 7 weddings but I can't look back on that now. I suppose all I can do is take all these suggestions (good and bad) and pray to all the photography gods above that I don't screw up on June 9th! Cheers