Out of Focus D200

[stuey]

Hi Everyone,

 

I've only recently bought the D200 with the el cheapo 18-70mm ED lens.

 

I am fairly new to the digital game, having spent 28 years living in

Hasselblad/Nikon film land. In other words, crystal sharp pix most of my grown

up life.

 

This camera and lens combo has me simply going nuts!

 

In a nutshell (no pun intended), when I shoot, say, a portrait on about 50mm

or even 70mm, hovering the focus sight over the subject's eye (I've been

reading all your forums on this), and filling the frame with the subject's

head, my pix are pin sharp. As soon as I zoom out, or even stand back and

shoot more of a three quarter length pic, everything goes slightly soft on me.

 

Now, after what I thought were conclusive tests with a friend who has the same

camera, we thought the Dynamic Are AF was coolest to use,...move the target

around, stick the subject in the middle of thre cluster and fire. On the

closeups, we compared his expensive f2.8. zoom to my cheap one, and when mine

focused well, you couldn't tell the difference!

 

But when I got home and tried somelonger shots, just terribe.

 

I get the feeling with my camera that on long shots,when the subject's face

doesn't fit neatly into the cluster, (thus having to put it there, keep the

focus locked, then move to the desired spot and shoot) somehow the camera

drifts out of focus. The little black "in focus" dot remains on when I move

the camera to shoot, so, go figure.

 

Does anyone else have this problem?

 

I have shot with tripod and high shutter speeds, so it's not a camera shake

issue.

 

I have played with internal sharpening but that has little or no effect.

 

I am shooting FINE and Raw, so not an image quality issue.

 

The other thing I wanted to put out there is, I went to see my local Nikon

repair guy today and told him of my woes, and he said that it was a cheap lens

and therefore inherently soft. (He had one, did one wedding with it and got

rid of it!)

 

He also said that zooms tend to be soft at wider angles, which depressed me

somewhat, as it sounded like it was across the board.

 

I'm working for an art director that keeps blowing up subject's eyes up to

100% from shoots, and complains that they're not pin sharp. I want to strangle

him!

 

My questions are: 1. Is this just a crappy lens, and should I invest in a good

2.8 zoom and be done with it?

 

2. Does anyone know of something within the camera that I

could try, that isn't "switched on" already? (I must admit I find the Nikon

manual unbelievably vague and confusing)

 

3. Am I doing something strange with the autofucusing?

(someone said that, say, in the Dynamic Range setting, one needs to actually

keep the subject within the cluster at all times. I do not want to be limited

to that kind of technical constraint) Does anyone have any better experiences

on certain focus settings?

 

4. Does anyone have any experience of having to have their

lens/camera combo tweaked by Nikon to get them up to par? (The Nikon guy said

he thought zI might have to do that)

 

Thanks all, look forward to hearing from you.

 

Stu

[nikos peri]

One part you have yet to discover Stu, in this move to high resolution digital files, is that you MUST imperatively learn all the sharpening tricks of the trade. You need to eat USM for breakfast with a 10mpix file otherwise you will be throwing out even that 60mm macro you use on the Hassie as being soft. (Incidentally, could you throw it in my direction?)

[chris_vincent2]

I'm not a fan of that lens for portraits, in fact I just sold mine on ebay. It's a 'holiday' lens in my mind and not intended for microscopic scrutiny of the images.

 

I prefer the 17-55 for portraits, although you may need a program at the gym to hold that combo all day!

 

I've tried my 18-200 but find the depth of focus is very short at the long end of the zoom and this may be the issue with your pictures. Maybe you should stop down and increase the ISO and see what happens.

 

I was a Leica R person until I switched to digital and I haven't seen anything approaching my 90/2.8 for sharpness and clarity.

 

Given the image quality you are used to, it might be that you need to go back to basics and get a good (cheap!) prime lens. That's going to be my next move.

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

Why not try a 50mm f/1.8 lens for portraits? They are only $100 and are very sharp. Another plus is that the 1.5 crop makes it equal to a 75mm lens on 35mm.

[elliot1]

The 'el cheapo 18-70mm ED lens' provides excellent results when used properly.

 

Either turn your in-camera sharpening setting on, or sharpen your images using software.

 

Also, shoot at f8 whenever possible and you will notice a BIG difference in picture quality (sharpening is still required).

[thousandsunsphotography]

Stu,

I'm having the same issues that you are. I have incorporated some of the sugestions and have had better results. I am going to try to iron the rest of them out this weekend, good luck.

[juan_parm_nides]

Use prime lens at apropiate aperture. Beyond that point, sharp is a very subjective issue. Cheers.

[conrad_hoffman]

IMHO, autofocus is good, but not perfect. Could your soft eye problem be because the focus point is actually slightly ahead or behind? Do some test shots on some targets set up at about 1" distance intervals, and at the same approximate overall distance as you want to shoot. There's an on-line target for this, but it's only useful at fairly close distances. My 18-70 seems to be excellent, but extracting 100% of the performance 100% of the time is very difficult.

[paul_sokal___dallas__tx]

Stu,

 

Digital SLR's have an anti-aliasing filter in front of the sensor which by necessity introduces some blur into the photo. Therefore, essentially all photos need some sharpening in their processing. It's much easier to do this post capture in PS where you have much more control. I wouldn't advise doing it in camera. The "kit lens" is a great "holiday lens" as suggested above but certainly not to the standard of Nikon's "pro lenses" like the 17-55 or many of its prime lenses. The D200 is such a great high resolution camera that it will quickly expose the deficiencies of a comsumer lens. If you're shooting stuff that's going in front of an art director, it's obviously not "holiday photography" and you better invest in some decent glass.

 

Paul

[kurt_garcia]

Stu my friend you are not alone. Since purchasing my D200 in June I have been extremely frustrated with the sharpness. I own a 28-70 2.8 and a 70-200 2.8 VR. Not the best and surely not the cheapest lenses. I switched from the Minolta 35mm. To my surprise my $1000 12 year old Minolta creates much sharper images! Or does it?

Once again sharpness is subjective. Our frustration might stem from the fact we can view our digital image at 200% and higher.

 

Try this test and write the forum with your results please.

 

Take an image that you think is relatively sharp and have it printed at a quality lab. Print it at 4X6 and maybe 18X24. You might be surprised at the results.

 

Kurt

[photo5]

I own a D80, not a D200, but I've found the I *like* shooting at the ISO 400 or 800 setting more than ISO 100 just for the "sharpness" that the grain adds. I shot film for 25 years before getting into digital SLR photography and the ISO 100 setting on the D80, to me, looks horrible. It's not normal to have that smooth jelly look to images. I *start* at ISO 200 and go up from there, but 400 is pretty much my standard setting and 800 is very good too on this camera.

 

This might be a good solution for you. Try it out.

 

Also, scanning my Fuji NPS 160 negs, the grain comes out looking like my D80 at ISO 1600. It's true!

 

---> Don't be afraid of grain folks. It can help an image.

 

Dave

 

Dave

[joseph_smith3]

I have the d 200 and the 18-70mm lens and I DO NOT experience any of the soft focus issues you all are having. I check my images in Nikon View by going to 1 : 1 to see how sharp they are. Almost all of them are with this lens even the ones I shoot hand held in AF. And I have compared the results to images taken with my 24mm and 20mm and 105 mm macro primes. They compared quite favorably. I do not set any special settings in the camera except cloudy white balance in that I shoot RAW at ISO 100. I do try and focus manually most of the time with my AF lenses in that I have learned that what the camera picks as the focal point is not what I want as the focal point. And I shoot in aperture priority mode to use the f stop to give me the depth of field I desire for that particular shot. The only complaint I have about the lens is some minor vignetting at 18mm which is corrected in Nikon Capture.

 

I suggest you let another photographer friend of yours use your camera and lens to take some pictures under a variety of focal lenghts and f stops. Then you take the same pictures at the same settings using your method of focusing. Then compare the results and see if thy are different. Maybe the camera ( or lens) and lens has a back focus problem.

 

Joe Smith

[leicaglow]

I use a lot of short depth of field in my work (usually from 50mm to 180mm). I'm spending more time on focus than anything else now. I admit this is my first AF camera though (previously used older Nikons, still use Hasselblad, and LF). I'm also using manual focus a lot more. One suggestion is to try various combinations of focus control--and yes, the D200 manual could not be more vague for as thick as it is. I've also resorted to using a single-spot sensor for focus and holding it until I shoot. It has helped me a lot, but I'm not quite there. Does Nikon have a professional service program where you're from? Do you use it?

[blumesan]

we thought the Dynamic Are AF was coolest to use,...move the target around, stick the subject in the middle of thre cluster and fire.

-------------

 

Lots of good suggestions above. I have only one thing to add that has not been mentioned. In my experience best autofocus performance is achieved by avoiding Dynamic Area AF. Set the camera for Single Servo AF and Single Area AF. Use the center sensor to lock focus and, while maintaining focus lock, reframe subject if necessary.

 

 

Cheers/Mike

[alain_ramon]

I think I have the same problem with my D200 (and noticed it on my D70 too, before I got the D200).

 

Focusing is OK at 35mm or more, but often bad at wide angle (18mm)

Not that there is a constant back or front focus, but when using wide angle, the D200 doesn't seem to refocus when subjet distance change a little.

 

The workaround I found is using AF-C instead of AF-S (using AF-ON button). And to force the D200 to refocus, it may be necessary to focus on your left hand and then refocus on your subject.

As an alternative, if AF really doesn't want to focus on the subject, you can focus manually by guessing the distance and reporting on the lens, it is quite easy as there is often enough depth of field at 18mm.

 

Currently, my D200 is gone for repair (for that problem and hard to turn back wheel) ...

[kurt_garcia]

Alain, please keep us posted since I have both of the problems you are describing. Including the "hard to turn back wheel". Just curious how many of us have actually opened a case with www.nikonusa.com to let them know that we are encountering the same fuzzy/out of focus issue? Could there possibly be a bad batch of d200's? I purchased mine in June.

 

Kurt

[stuey]

Hi Kurt,

I bought my D200 in June as well. Could be something to your bad batch theory.

Could be really worth reporting these incidents to the link you've included. Do you think big multi nationals like Nikon would give a damn, though?

Stu

[stuey]

Hi Mike, sorry for the tardiness of the reply.

Re: The locking on centre focus then re-framing, this the worst offender in list of focus problems. Total focus drift. Doing my head in.

Stu

[blumesan]

Hi Stu.

 

I had a problem with this too, at first. Finally realized that you have to make sure focus is locked and stays that way. I accomplished this by removing autofocus from the shutter release. Initiate autofocus with the AF button ***and keep this button depressed while reframing until shot is fired*** I don't like to keep a button depressed while reframing and shooting, so I use an alternate method: Again remove autofocus from shutter release. Set shutter to release priority. Target the area to be in focus and press and release the AF button. Now you can reframe without any further autofocus activity and the shutter will release when you are ready.

 

I hope this helps and that it is not a basic flaw with your camera.

 

Cheers/Mike

[alain_ramon]

> Alain, please keep us posted since I have both of the problems you are describing.

 

Ok, I'll tell when my D200 is back.

 

> I purchased mine in June.

 

Mine is from the first batchs in dec 2005.

 

> I had a problem with this too, at first. Finally realized that you have to make sure focus is locked and stays that way

 

That what the salesman told me first. But that not the problem in my case. When I hear the double bip of AF confirmation, the AF is done.

 

My problem occurs even without reframing.

It seems to be as if the D200 where using another AF sensor than the one I selected (usually center AF sensor).

[kurt_garcia]

Hopefully some of you are still monitoring this thread. After months and months of tests I think I have found why my d200 images appear fuzzy. With my 28-70 I took a few shots and noticed that at 28mm the focus point was slightly behind where I thought the focus should be. I had a friend with a d80 use my lens and his focus was right on. I have attached a cropped image of the test. Let me tell you I am almost ready to use the Nikon gear as a boat anchor.<div></div>

[kurt_garcia]

By the way here is where I got my test information.

http://focustestchart.com/

[rivard]

I haven't had a chance to try this, but I have been experiencing

frustrating focusing issues as well.

 

Check out this link from Digital Darrell and see if it helps:

 

http://www.nikonians.org/html/resources/tips-n-tricks/d2x_sensor_size_width/index.html

 

Hoping to understand my D200 even better!