Small DSLR

[jim_rais]

Browsing through photo websites, I noticed that there's hardly a

word about smallish DSLR. The manufacturers seem also not to want to

burn their hands with small, well built (up to pro standards) DSLR.

Pentax *istD (S, S2, L, L2) and EOS 350 XT are all what we can get

so far; for me the ideal measurements, but - a pity - rather too

light built. I'm curious to know how others here think about a good,

solid, and sturdy <I>small</I> DSLR, something like the standards of

the cameras in the 60's (sigh .. am I <I>that</I> old already?).<P>

 

IMO, this type of small DSLR is still unbeatable for journeys, yet

reliable and - important! - inconspicuous.<P>

 

<LI><A HREF="http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=332699">Jim

Rais</A></LI><P>

[mark u]

Maybe you should take a look at the new Panasonic 4/3 camera. Some details here:

 

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0602/06022801panasonicdmcl1handson.asp

 

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0602/06022609panasonicdmcl1.asp

[phule]

The Petanx *ist DS2 and *istDL and the Canon 350D are fine cameras. I think it's going to be difficult to make them much smaller with APS-C sensors and still have decent battery life and the larger LCD screens.

 

Mark mentions the new Panasoic 4/3's offering, which is nearly the same size as the 350D, possibly slightly larger. (dpreview.com mentions that it "is a little smaller than the E-330" for whatever that is worth.)

 

350D: 127 x 94 x 64 mm

Olympus E-330: 140 x 87 x 72 mm

[zane1664879013]

> ...but - a pity - rather too light built.

 

You'll never see another all-metal SLR hit the market. And I don't think you really want one, either. In many ways, fiber-reinforced polycarbonate is a superior material to a simple metal alloy--lighter, better impact resistance, and cheaper. (Although magnesium might be an interesting choice, but certainly not cheap.)

 

The Pentax *ist digital SLR has a stainless steel chassis underneath that plastic skin; is that not tough enough for you? Have you handled one? It certainly feels solid enough in my hands, and I'm pretty unforgiving in the design department.

[rustymadd]

Wow! That new Panasonic is really nice. I love the manual speed dial and aperture ring. And with Leica supplying optics, I can't wait to see the image samples.

 

Now based on the form of the sample, this appears to be of the ilk that I've been wishing for. Not that I'd leave Canon, but this would make a great walk around camera, assuming that the images are as nice as the form factor.

 

C Painter

[jeff_delisio]

My wife carries the 350XT now and before that she used a film rebel. Nearly all our photography is travel related and she wants minimal weight and size.

 

Those cameras have -

been trekking over 15,000 ft. for days on end

 

been in Moroccan deserts in July in 130 degree weather

 

been in extreme monsoon rains in India and Indonesia

 

had lenses changed countless times

 

been dropped by accident from camels, horses and the tops of buses and trains... and still survived and often deliver better photos than I with my 20D and old hand me down EOS1 - but that's another story.

 

I don't know what the constant fetish is with heavy, tank-like cameras. Unless you are a pro who is out and about and requires absolute weather sealing or just love to hammer tent pegs with your camera body it seems like undue fretting to me.

[briany]

Maybe a D50 and the Nikon 45 f/2.8 AI-P? Not "pro build," but quite compact.

[andrew robertson]

"You'll never see another all-metal SLR hit the market."

 

Let's see, there's the Canon 30D, which is all magnesium. That will hit the market in a few

weeks. In fact, there are more all metal DSLRs on the market than plastic.

 

I know I wouldn't buy a plastic DSLR. My EOS 1n is part polycarb, but Canon switched from

polycarb to magnesium for its higher end cameras years ago.

[kevin conville]

I've dropped both an all-plastic drill from a 12' ladder before and a magnesium milwaukee

drill, both were accidents of course. The magnesium drill broke. The plastic drill was fine.

 

Granted this isn't science but neither is the un-qualifiable need for metal bodied cameras.

If you like the feel and weight of them that's fine. I just wouldn't make any assumptions

about durabilty.

[godfrey]

I've been shooting with the Pentax *ist DS for the past year. Why do you think it's "too

lightly built"? It's a steel chassis with a polycarbonate skin over it .. tough and durable,

difficult to damage. <br>

<br>

I've dragged my cameras around everywhere for the past 12 months ... trips to Mexico, the

UK, New York, Texas and Arizona ... carried them in a wide variety of bags and such. I

don't normally drop them on the ground intentionally, but they've gotten their share of

bumps and crunches. Both bodies still look and work like new. I have over 12,000

exposures on the DS between the two bodies. <br>

<br>

Excellent camera, excellent Pentax lenses. The photo quality has been exceptional: I've

been more than satisfied using them. The exhibit I'm hanging this weekend was shot

entirely with the DS. <br>

<br>

Godfrey<br>

Exhibit: "<a href="http://www.gdgphoto.com/" target=new><b>Ramsey</b></a>"

[jcuknz]

I am happy to let OIS or AS quell my concerns about light cameras and I don't particuarly look after them but take simple precautions.

They are after all not the simple little mechanical things of earlier days. Rather than fussing about UV filters to protect the lens I buy a cheap case from a discount store and leave the lenshood in position 7/24, well almost, I have to remove it to use a CU lens.

[zane1664879013]

> Let's see, there's the Canon 30D, which is all magnesium.

 

Is is really 100% magnesium? I guess I assumed it was the same as the 5D and 20D, a plastic & steel frame with a magnesium shell. Canon's website is kinda vague, and Bob's specifications doesn't say exactly, either:

 

http://www.photo.net/equipment/canon/30D/specifications.html

 

I don't mean to be lawyerly with language here, but the details of construction interest me on a purely technical level.

[briany]

Kevin, nice anecdotal evidence. If football players were Photo.net photographers, they'd all be whining that their helmets are plastic. Somehow, they manage. I've always assumed that the sensor would become misaligned or electrical connections potentially broken even if the body could withstand massive impacts, but I've not seen any testing of this.

[rustymadd]

Well, I guess I'm the only one who cares about the design of the new Panasonic rather than the material the body is made from.

 

I'm not even sure where all this anti-snobbery snobbery came from. I didn't see anything about metal mentioned in the original post, just the words "solid, and sturdy small DSLR".

 

Does anyone appreciate the manual shutter speed dial or manual aperture ring?

 

Does anyone shoot in manual mode anymore?

 

(And no, it does not mean anyone is inferior or superior in any way at all if they do or don't shoot in Manual mode.)

 

Geez guys, look at the camera. It's got fun to shoot written all over it.

 

C Painter

[andrew robertson]

I don't think there's any frame in these cameras - the shell is the frame.

 

From the cutaways and exploded views I have seen, that seems to be the case anyway. I

know plastic can be solid enough, but it just doesn't seem to have the mass or rigidity that

magnesium does. I guess I'm biased and wouldn't make a very good materials engineer.

[dg1]

For what it's worth I've got an *ist DS which I like very much, and it is quite solidly built in my opinion. However, there is no comparison to the rigidity of my Pentax MZ-S, magnesium body, the feel and handling of which is on a totally different level. That said, I like them both a lot. I have to say the MZ-S is a total joy to use, not just because of the body material, and it's small too. Makes the slight hassle of using film worth it for me.

[godfrey]

Clifton,

 

I think the Panasonic L1 is probably the most interesting, best *new* design I've seen in a

camera in a very long time. The styling is hot, the ergonomics look exceptional. I reserve

judgement on the viewfinder and, of course, we won't know much about the performance

for a bit yet. I have never known a lens with a Leica name on it to disappoint me too bad. It

is a stunner. I want to buy one even if I really really don't need another camera...

 

That said, I'm very happy with the Pentax lenses I bought and I use the DS in all modes

(other than the presets!) quite a bit. I find its controls to be quite well laid out, easy to

learn and remember how to use. I haven't touched the aperture ring on those of my lenses

that have them (all but one) other than to lock it to the A position. Now that Pentax has

pre-announced their higher spec body for next Fall, I know I'll be happy with this kit into

the foreseeable future.

 

Godfrey

[roger_kallet]

Here's Samsung's entry into the DSLR world. I saw it at the just finished PMA show in Orlando. Stainless steel body and light.

 

 

 

http://www.samsungcamera.com/product/pro_view.asp?pro_uid=1485&cat_uid=62#tabs

 

 

http://www.samsungcamera.com/product/pro_view.asp?pro_uid=1485&cat_uid=62&tabmenu=2#tabs

 

Roger

[phule]

Roger,

 

Samsung's entries into the DSLR world are re-branded Pentax *ist DS2 and *ist DL cameras.

 

Pentax and Samsung entered into a cooperative agreement in 2005.

[roger_kallet]

Rob,

 

I didn't know that. Thanks. I quess what I meant when I said *entered* was a camera with the Samsung name on it.

 

Roger

[phule]

Roger,

 

I think it'll be interesting to see what, if anything, comes out of this agreement. I hope it keeps Pentax-mount cameras in the market place (and maybe more available at big box stores). The very low cost of the *ist DL seems like it would be ideal for budget consumers who want to step up to a DSLR.

[roger_kallet]

Rob,

 

Yes, I agree.

 

Roger

[andrew robertson]

"I think the Panasonic L1 is probably the most interesting, best *new* design I've seen in a

camera in a very long time."

 

It is a cute looking camera, but I don't think it's very new, considering that it's basically a

slightly re-engineered E330.

[wilsontsoi]

I'd make do with a <a href="http://www.photo.net/photodb/presentation.tcl?presentation_id=273393">Nikon</a> <a href="http://www.photo.net/photodb/presentation.tcl?presentation_id=273283">D70</a> for what you described, but if you want the build, D200 would probably be the answer. Don't count out the <a href="http://www.photo.net/photodb/presentation.tcl?presentation_id=276374">advanced digital point & shoot</a> for your travel need as well especially since they're usually robustly built and sized just right for travel.