thierrylaflamme Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 For many years, I used only the format 35mm. I know the rules when we size a scene in the viewer before shooting (about 1/3 - 2/3 space). However, I'm wondering if with a square film (medium format camera), the rules are the same... Is anybody able to tell me more about it? Thanks in advance, sincerely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wickedmartini Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Are you referring to the rule of thirds for composition? If so, the same applies to a square format... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q.g._de_bakker Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Thierry,<br><br>The rule to follow is that if it looks o.k., it looks o.k.<br>So provided we have some degree of good taste, all we have to do is just make it so it looks nice, and it will. The joys of a visual medium!<br>;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jean-louis llech Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 No rules, be yourself.<br> If you <u>feel</u> that a relationship 1/4 - 3/4 is better for a scene, forget the rule of thirds. Everything else is formal, academic.<br> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulrik Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 I do fully agree with Q.G.'s approach. Make sure you get a square format camera with waist level finder. In my feeling this makes it easier to judge the composition (well, to see if it looks nice) compared to a prism finder. Ulrik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stwrtertbsratbs5 Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 The rule of thirds is a great way to get people to stop framing everything dead center. But you should move beyond it and start experimenting with the edges of the frame and different compositions. Have fun and experiment. And then critically evaluate your work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
douglas_green1 Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 To quote Monty Python: Rule #6: There is no rule #6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_cochran Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Also, remember that square film doesn't necessarily mean square prints, any more than 2:3 rectangular film means 2:3 rectangular prints. As you're composing, think about what you want your final print to look like. You can make it square, 8x10, 8x12, really long and narrow, oval, circular, square but with the sides tilted 45 degrees from horizontal, etc. The possibilities are limited only by your imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thierrylaflamme Posted February 17, 2006 Author Share Posted February 17, 2006 So, finally, if I understood... I have to feel "free" when I shoot and less academic. I like this way! Thank you very much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rory_litonjua Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 The rule of thirds can still apply to square format ( and often is applied). One of the advantages (or selling points)of a square format camera is being able to compose or produce pictures in square, portrait or landscape layouts without changing your grip or hold on the camera. Take a look at some older photography books like 'The Rollei Way', 'The Rollei Manual', or any of the old Rollei Annuals. You will notice that not all the pictures presented are square. Likely, they weren't all done with the aid of a format adapter either. Cropping a photograph to improve it's composition is an acceptable practice. We can't all be Edward Weston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCL Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Rules here are merely guidelines which have proven attractive in the past. There are no rules....only creativity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug grosjean Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 I use the rule of thirds as a default, IOW, if there's no other composition that looks better to me. I'm also OK with cropping afterwards. So I guess we're back to having no rules... On my Rolleicord, I ended up having a focus-screen with just two horizontal and two vertical gridlines - rule of thirds. It's somewhat handy for composition, but extremely handy for keeping horizons level and trees vertical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne_haas Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Thierry, As Stephen said, compositional 'rules' are more guidelines rather than something hard-and-fast. In large part how one sets up a composition depends on the subject, what the 'intention' is (if there is one), and the other associated elements within the scene. The 'rule of threes' and the associated 'golden mean' just happen to be time-honoured approaches that tend to be aesthetically pleasing in general -- however, the trick is knowing when to 'break the rules', and that comes through practice, willingness to try out new approaches, etc. This is all about learning to see rather than just looking (sometimes referred to as 'training one's eye). If you haven't done it already, you may want to visit your local library and check out some books on visual design. And whenever you see an image (photo, painting, ...) that strikes you as interesting, step back and analyze what makes the image stand out/work for you. And also develop a habit of looking at your own efforts critically, and ask yourself why a certain photo works and/or what can be done to make it work better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thierrylaflamme Posted February 17, 2006 Author Share Posted February 17, 2006 Thanks Wayne! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desmond_kidman Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Rules? We don't need no stinkin' rules. If there are rules...break them. when you break them frequently it works best to break them hard. Horizon a few degrees off angle? Usually not so good. Grossly skewed horizon? Can be very effective. Try playing on strong diagonals. Try hitting one corner hard. Try dead center, with perfect symmetry, really breaking that cliche expression, "rule of thirds". Try tilting that damned camera......so many folks think it's got a built in mercury switch that will cause it to explode if not held level. Explore the whole scene, and parts of the scene, with various compostions, various angles. Turn off your memory about what you saw before you looked through the viewfinder: see ONLY what you see through the viewfinder. But see EVERYTHING in the finder, scan it all including the corners. The above are thoughts, not rules. Develop your own look and feel. There is something about that square (I often shoot 35mm shots that I know I'm going to crop square). An elegance. A peace. That can also be full of tension with the right composition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne_haas Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Thierry: you are welcome :-) I had a quick look at your portfolio, and in many respects you are already using the rule of thirds/golden mean intuitively. However, sometimes it works better to centre the main subjects: 'Feeling good - feeling close' is an example of a shot that may have worked better (and possibly bolder) if the negative space between the two faces was centered symmetrically. Remember that the negative space within an image is an important compositionally as the positive space (i.e., the subject(s)). On the latter note, the shot with the 'man with egg' has way too much white space around him, which takes away from the dynamism of his gesture. Either crop or get closer in if reshooting. Other shots (e.g., the short-haired lady in sweater shot) could also be cropped somewhat tighter for better effect. Also remember that the edges of the frame are also important, and do not be afraid to encroach upon those edges or even cut off part of your subject for dramatic effect. 'Spied upon' is an example of a shot that may work better if the man shooting pool were placed farther to the right edge. That would place emphasis on the direction of his shot(implied motion) and enhance the image's dynamic; however, do be careful in leading your audience completely outside the image and having no other points of interest to anchor them within the image. Those are just some basic pointers. Another one is before taking a shot, squint your eyes tightly to the point that all you see are tonal shapes. This 'abstraction' helps in making judgements as to how the tonal values (and other basic elements -- e.g., colours) within the setting work together compositionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp dobrin Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 I'll add to the 'no rules' uproar about good looking photographs "Consulting the rules of composition before taking a photograph, is like consulting the laws of gravity before going for a walk." -edward weston Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly_flanigan1 Posted February 19, 2006 Share Posted February 19, 2006 Make sure somebody doesnt try to steal your ride. :) Keep a TLR handy to shoot them :)<BR><BR><img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/ektar/biker/tripods-498.jpg"><BR><BR>Make sure your Kowa 6 is always loaded.<BR><BR><img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/ektar/kowa%206/tripods-489.jpg"><BR><BR>Dream of Jeannie too, see likes 6x7cm .<BR><BR><img src="http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y148/ektar/epson6x7cm/tripods-505.jpg"> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patrick j dempsey Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Thierry, the rule of thirds for 2x3 proportion is used to create a SQUARE in the frame. Its that hidden sqaure that makes our brains tingle. In square format you have the fun of already being in a square so really using thirds would just return you to 2x3 proportions within the composition. Everyone says avoid the center, but in square format the center can be your friend... since breaking up the image into quarters gives you 4 squares within one big square. <BR><BR>Center can be your friend...<BR><img src="http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b15/patrickjdempsey/Mamiya%20C220/patbridge006.jpg"> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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