barry_davis___st._louis__m Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Dave, based on your earlier post about a "Sunpak" and now this "Post" I wonder about what was more pressing...Your "Sunpak" a few days earlier or this post...something smelss, I just dont know what!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgrim8 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 I ate at Red Lobster a couple of months ago and the food was bad. Can I sue them and get my money back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenPapai Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Exactly, I had some bad dental work done to me 29 years ago -- can I sue? MY friend had some bad work done too lately, should he sue? Why not? The dentist uses fancy equipment with a carbon tipped drill, should I sue? They sure had a fancy ad and a pretty assistant who looked like his grifriend of all things! Let's see examples of the poor work here, please post a couple representative bad shots. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khaisy Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 After 2 years, you can't sue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_b2 Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 Dave, As others have mentioned, seeing an attorney is the way to get advice about suing. All states have statutes of limitations giving you a varying number of years to sue for different types of problems. The idea is, if you have a problem, take action while people and memories and paperwork are still around. After that period, if no action has been brought, people should be entitled to get along with their lives. The limitation on lawsuits does not mean that your grievance was not good or that your unhappiness is not justified. There may be other ways to address your current unhappiness. I believe that the Better Business Bureau system has recently removed any time limits on filing complaints. If they offer in-person mediation or arbitration, the chance to voice your grievances may be of assistance. The photographer may belong to a professional association offering similar assistance. If he advertises, or has a store front, there may be logos of trade associations he belongs to. Before doing any of the above, think about contacting him. Tell him this has been a concern of yours and you would like some closure. He may say no, it's been too long ago. He may say OK, let's talk. If he is willing to talk and asks what you want, he may refuse a refund. In that case, assuming he wants to do something in good faith, and has improved over the years, he might be willing to do some family photographs. I don't know. He might have just been a dumb kid who thought he knew what he was doing, but didn't. He may realize that now and be willing to work with you. Sometimes that intervention of an independent third party can help. If you are in a smaller community, a florist who refers clients to him or the wedding coordinator for a local religious institution may be able to get the two of you together. Even lawyers know that lawsuits may not be the best solution for their clients. Many lawyers try to resolve disputes outside the court system, in what is called alternative dispute resolution. Courts can be very expensive, take a long time, and still you may lose. For your disappointed friend, suggest a meeting with the photographer to voice the quality issues and to suggest remedies, such as a reduced fee. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timcorridan Posted February 13, 2006 Share Posted February 13, 2006 just out of curiosity, how much did the photographer charge you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_lai Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Dave, sorry about your bad experience, but perhaps by posting this you've done the community a service. You'll often see newbies posting on this forum who obviously know nothing or next to nothing about photography, but have decided their new camera gives them all the qualifications they need to hire themselves out as professional wedding photographers. Perhaps some of those people will come across your posting and see the harm they may cause before they go out and ruin some other couple's wedding photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phototogomanny Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Hi, I would be upset If I paid him $1,500 Plus, If you paid him any less you should not complain... How much did you pay him ? Remember you get what you paid for. Manny D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_h.1 Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 "By no means i want to sue...." If you title a post 'Can I sue a wedding photographer..." it usually means you 'want to sue'. As to your new question (and this is not legal advice just a personal comment) it would be difficult to enforce a refund for a subjective quality control issue unless the quality were so bad it would be substantailly and objectively of no value to a reasonable person. Others have suggested reviewing representative samples of the photographer, not just the advertising displays. That's great advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anner Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Hi Dave, I'm sorry that you had such a difficult experience and that your outcomes did not match your expectations. Unfortunately, I hear about this a lot from brides who think that one of their vendors didn't live up to their expectations. Sometimes it's the florist, who they feel didn't arrange the flowers in the right way, or maybe the DJ didn't play enough of the right music. In any case, the only way to make sure your expectations match that of the person you're hiring, is to ask the right questions and to put all of your expectations in writing. Unfortunately, I do know of quite a few pros who have been in this business many years and who can be at a wedding all day long and only take 200 pictures. They have a shot list in their mind which doesn't really change, no matter what the situation. While I don't personally agree with this style, I am also aware that this is the way certain people work. Some photographers talk about blending into the crowd, and mingling with guests may be part of that strategy. Many photographers work side by side with a spouse or relative as an assistant, and different people have different opinions of what an assistant should do. I agree that proof quality is not always the same as print quality. There are some photographers who deliver print-ready proofs, but they've really gone above and beyond what an actual proof is intended for. The best way to protect your friends from this in the future is to educate them to ask to see a full set of proofs from a recent wedding, along with a recent example of what the final product will look like. It is also important to get a references from recent brides and ask them what they thought of the photographer's professionalism. The time to prevent yourself from getting a poor product is before you sign the contract. It's very important to do your homework and ask the right questions before making such an important investment. It sounds like the photographer fulfilled his contractual commitment, and the rest is a subjective arguement. If this is very important to you, you should seek legal counsel. All the best to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_yong Posted February 14, 2006 Author Share Posted February 14, 2006 Thanks for all your advises, sympathy and suggestions. Ken - My mother-in-law was a pediatrician and she got sued couple times in the past before her retirement even though her medical practice was highly recommendable among her peers and clients. And she was a distinguished seminar speaker for a well-known pharmaceutical company. My good friend also a pediatrician got sued couple times because the medicines he prescribed triggered some kind of allergies. In both cases, the doctors won the lawsuit. Please don't tell me a lousy dentist can not be sued! One of my aunts was diagnosed with a heart disease. The surgeons opened her hearts twice and found nothing. SHe was then sent to another hospital for a heart surgery. The chief surgeon opened her heart and found that the previous stitching was not done properly and her heart got serious infection. The surgeon stopped doing any operation and summoned a meeting with other fellow doctors and my cousin family. Those doctors recommended a law-sult and they were willing to witness. Please don't tell me a doctor can not be sued! I can take shots of my blurry wedding group pictures and, other poorly-lit and posed pictures. Would you attribute the poor quality of those pictures to my wrong camera exposure and focusing technique? Bill - Thanks for your suggestions. Back then i did not know about "Better Business Bureau." ABout 6 months ago, my friend recommended the Bureau to us for our house roof replacement. We picked a local company recommended by the Bureau. The job and cost were beautiful. How many independent wedding photographer are in the Bureau's list? I guess just a few... Marc - Yes, i understand proof online is low resolution picture. In my friend case. the final products are also suck. To those who asked - I paid $2500 for my wedding. Maybe to some of you, $2500 is not a big sum. I did look at the photographer's porfolio. He did the wedding shot for my good friend, this is how he was recommended to us. We did look at my friend's wedding album. The pictures were good and the photograper was recommendable by them. Why he did the "Opposite" is beyond my understanding. We did look at all the pictures he shot on our wedding day. I am sure most of you before taking a solo as a wedding photographer, you assisted one way or another. Did you stand there like an audience all the time when your mentor was busily shooting? If you are like my wedding photographer's assistant, good luck to your career! Ok, Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conraderb Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Dave - $2500 is a good sum for photography. Sure, it's not $10,000, but few people here shoot for that amount. Even though I haven't seen the pictures, I think that for $2500, you deserve better than what it sounds like you got (ie. you should be happy, if not delighted, IMHO). Hope things get better. Next time, hire Marc! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovcom_photo Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Who cares about the $2,500?!? It's the images of the memories that the photography screwed up...that is the real loss here...the $2,500 is just incidental at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd frederick Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Who says that Dave Yong actually had a lousy photographer? Dave Yong says so...that's all. Maybe we can see a few samples? As mentioned, this is not the Legal Advice Forum. I think that all of these types of questions should be deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcin harla Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Dave, I'm sorry to hear you had bad experience. As others have said this is not a place to seek legal advice. While quality is subjective, blurry formal (posed) photos is something that shouldn't have happened to a professional. Blurry shots from lets say reception are another story as they might have been taken to show some action. None of us here seen the pictures so we have to rely on your judgment (as valid as it may be).<p> <i>Yes, i understand proof online is low resolution picture. In my friend case. the final products are also suck.</i> <p>You said your friend hired him last month. Are you sure you've seen the final product? (such as album or enlargements). 1 month seems rather quick for a photographer to produce an album. <p> Regarding assitants: don't confuse them with 2nd shooters. Some assitants have no desire to ever become a photographers. Assistants are there to help main photog both with the equipment and sometimes with orginizing people for formal shots for instance. Nevertheless they should behave in a professional manner - they are hired to do the job, not have fun with guests.<br> I use my wife more and more as my assitant. She doesn't want to become a full time photographer, but can use camera if needed, knows where to position herself holding additonal light or reflector, knows how to use the lightmeter, and has very good people skills. <p> As to avoiding situation like this in the future: checking portfolio is a must, not only to see how the photographer works thoroughout a day, but to see if the work is consistent, and to determine whether his/her style is something you like. Price should always be secondary unless you're on a very strict budget (but then don't expect miracles). Sadly many people think that photography is a commodity and uncle Bob with his newly acquired Nikon/Canon camera can do the job.<br> For $2500 you should expect at least a decent professional job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_yong Posted February 15, 2006 Author Share Posted February 15, 2006 SOrry to post a question like this here. I will not do it again. I apologize.. OK, life moves on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelvinphoto - arlington, t Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Dave, Even they do a lousy job, the best they can do is refund your money minus cost of the print. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lou korell Posted February 17, 2006 Share Posted February 17, 2006 Rather than submit an uneducated answer, let's look at why you didn't get what you think you should have. Just looking at someone's portfolio does not guarantee that they consistently deliver a quality product or service. The best way to find out if someone can do the job is by reference and reputation. When looking for a wedding photographer it is a good idea to see a few samples of the delivered product, such as a proof album, finished album, slide show, etc. But equally important is to be able to contact other clients to ask how satisfied they were. Personality has a lot to do with service delivery and if you get glowing comments from former clients, you are put more at ease that you will be taken care of. I wish more potential clients would actually call my former brides for a reference. I'm sure I'd have way more bookings than I do if they made that effort. Lou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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