Old F-1 versus F-1N, Pros and cons

[mike_willis1]

I was wondering about this, I realize that there are probably allot

of info, but was wondering. I have two F-1N's and love them, but

unforatunately like a few others I made the mistake of bidding and

winning a speedfinder for a F-1, instead of a F-1N and before trying

to sell it, I was thinking, maybe the original F-1 has something

special about it. I know about the battery issue and know about the

adapters that are out there to allow you to use newer batteries and

that there are some companies who make batteries for this camera.

 

All info would be appreciated.

[rdkirk]

About two years ago, I asked several veteral repairers which of Canon's FD cameras was the best to keep in terms of future maintainability. They were unanimous in selecting the F-1n (small "n"--the all mechanical model with the rubber-tipped, racheted wind lever and release button shroud).

 

They said there were plenty of bodies to be found for cannibalizing, and that a good repairer should be able to make many parts from scratch.

[peter_white2]

The CRIS adapter solves the battery problem for the older F-1. For most users the advantage to the last version is the availability of spot metering via teh correct focusing screens. Also the brightest focusing screens for the last version are brighter than the brightest screens available for the older two versions.

 

There are other differences of courser. The new speedfinder has a rubber eyecup that some of us really like. It has longer timed shutter speeds. It's lighter and a bit smaller. And there's a built in light for the metering info in the viewfinder. You an get an accessory light for the older version. You can mount a flash directly on the prism, whereas you'll need an accessory adapter to mount one on the older F-1. Also, the new meter will read in lower light than the older meter.

[dave_s]

This is one of those things that is a matter of personal preference. I like old cameras, but I prefer the latest F-1N over the others (even though I wish it had mirror lock). One reason I prefer the latest version is that it feels like an overbuilt A series camera, and I learned 35mm photography on AT-1s and AE-1s 25 years ago.

<p>

Not all repair techs would agree with the superiority of the mechanical cameras. An Australian ex-Canon tech named <A HREF="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=005brn">Phil Aynsley</A> used to post here, and he thought the F-1N was the superior camera. Among other things, the F-1N has a better meter, better shutter braking, and better weather seals.

[peter_evans4]

<p><em>Also the brightest focusing screens for the last version are brighter than the brightest screens available for the older two versions.</em></p><p>I can't argue with that. However, I've read third-hand (?) accounts that degrade this to "The screen of the old F-1 isn't as bright as that of the new F-1." And this is an oversimplification at best. Anyway, it's bright enough. Whatever else you worry about, don't worry about screen brightness.</p>

[awahlster]

The only advantage the older models have over the New F-1 in practical use is the Mirror lock up feature and the ability to operate at all available shutter speeds with NO battery (of course no meter) In every other way as a working camera the New F-1 is superior.

 

Brighter screens better meter easier use with motordrives AE exposure easier to find battery more accessories better finder info better sealed to the weather, heck even just the action grip was a a big improvement.

[summitar]

My camera repair person will include the mod to use the latest silver batteries with the original F-1 as part of a reasonably priced CLA. So one would have all the virtues of a rugged mechanical camera. If you really favor the F-1N, why not jump to the T90?

[dave_s]

<i>"The screen of the old F-1 isn't as bright as that of the new F-1." </i>

<p>

Well, not to rain on the parade, but under ordinary circumstances this is correct as well. Some time ago when I still had my beater F-1n, I compared it side by side with the F-1N using two comparable lenses with the apertures on manual. (It was either two 50/1.8s or two 50/1.4s, I can't remember). Anyway, to the uncalibrated eyeball, the F-1N was about a stop brighter than the older camera.

<p>

My F-1N has an AE screen, and the F-1n had a standard screen, can't remember which, but probably the E. If we're talking about the plain vanilla screens that came with the cameras (not the rare laser matte versions), the FN screens beat the pants off the older versions.

[peter_evans4]

<p>A few months ago I had my F-1n and an FD 85/1.8 with me when I bought a rather pricy lens in a store. Since the assistant was (I presumed) favorably disposed toward me, and since the store had an F-1N and FD 85/1.8, I asked to look at the two together. I looked through that, I looked through mine. I looked through the new one, I looked through mine. I looked (et cetera). The screens were virtually the same. I couldn't tell any difference whatever in the level of light getting through.</p><p>It's possible that there was something amiss with the F-1N, but I doubt it. I even said that I'd heard that the F-1N was brighter and it seemed that this was not true: cue for any salesman worth his salt to point out that I'd overlooked such-and-such and to soft- or hard-sell the F-1N. He made no such attempt.</p><p><em>If you really favor the F-1N, why not jump to the T90?</em></p><p>"<a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00Eojd&tag=">EEEEE</a>"?</p>

[gnashings]

You have to remember that these are all OLD cameras, and they were pro-level gear, used hard and often "put away wet". You may see more differences between two New F1 than between a New F1 and and original F1 due to clenliness, damage, wear, etc.

They're different cameras, I love my New F1 (the latest version), but I also loved my Canon EF, which is closely related to the original F1. I would suggest that if you want another camera, keep the finder and get a nF1 - they can be had for very little (given what you're getting for your money).

[awahlster]

Sorry about your eye sight Peter Evens. BUT if you were to put a light meter up to the viewfinder on a F-1n and a F-1N both with std. E screens and both with NO lens or the same lens the F-1N will read approx. ONE full stop more light passing through the viewfinder then the older camera. This test has been done this test is well known. It was done when the F-1N was first being reviewed.

 

I have done the same test my self and the results hold.

 

The J and K super bright screens are approx 2 stops brighter then a std. F-1n screen and almost a full stop faster then the F-1n laser screens.

 

See Canon was making improvements to their new camera so there actually were improvements. None of it was ad hype.

 

When you compared a 50mm f1.8 to an 85mm f1.8 the 85mm f1.8 was reading an 18 degree (measured diagonally)narrower field of light and this would account for your confusion.

 

I have owned multiple examples of these two cameras as well as the earlier F-1. I have owned almost all of the available screens for all three cameras. I currenlty own all the super brights and 7 other F-1N screens. The F-1N has a bright viewfinder then the F-1 or F-1n period.

[User_502260]

Mark,

 

I have two F-1 bodies. One is an original with the single roller back and the second one has the back with two rollers. I must have about 12 focusing screens but I do not have any on the L screens. When we are talking about either an F-1 or an F-1n, how much brighter will the L screens make the viewfinder?

[awahlster]

From 1/2 to 3/4 stop would be the normal improvement with one of the Laser screens. remember the screens between the first two F-1 and F-1n are not interchangable with the New F-1/F-1N this has mostly to do with the metering in the newer version.

[lance_dennis]

Mike,

 

I have three NEW F1 cameras (3rd model) and one F1n (second model). I use and enjoy using both models. I use the F1n exclusively with the "L" laser cut screens. I can effectively focus either camera with my half century old eyes and my -7.5 corrective lenses. Bear in mind that Canon made two different eye-level finders for the F1 (first model) and F1n (second model). They look the same from the outside and are interchangable. The newer one has a slightly darker image.

 

The New F1 has a better "feel", has easy to use AE functions, and metering patterns quite easily changed by replacing the screens. The motor drive and winders are better for this model.

 

The F1n has mirror lock-up, booster T finder for very low light exposures, cheaper parts and accessories, and functionality without a battery. There are multiple inexpensive battery solutions.

 

The New F1 requires special tools for repair and adjustment. The F1n uses more standard parts and tools.

 

Changing the metering patterns on the F1n is more difficult. The pattern is associated with the prism type. The familiar 12% rectangle functions with the eye-level, waist level, and speedfinder prisms. A full-frame center weighted pattern is associated with the EE (auto-exposure) prism, and a full-frame non-weighted pattern with the Booster T prism. However, when using the Booster T or EE prisms, you can use the normal metering pattern (12% rectangle) by switching off the prism's special functions.

 

The two advantages of the New F1 that I find important are: 1) spot metering; 2) built in light for the meter info. I wear hats with brims outside. I find the brim shades the F1n meter info window. Either add-on light is not that good. In this respect the New F1 is better.

 

Both cameras will last almost forever. I have a fear that eventually the electronics in the New F1 will fail. The electronics are not repairable.

 

When I need something to be perfect I always grab my F1n. Now they are so cheap, they are almost free! Get one. You will feel that you have the world's best and second best SLRs, regardless of which one you find to be better!

 

-Lance

[peter_evans4]

<p><em>See Canon was making improvements to their new camera so there actually were improvements. None of it was ad hype.</em></p><p>I never read the ads at the time; I haven't read them since. I don't believe that I've said or implied that anything was hype; I've no reason to think that Canon hyped anything.</p><p><em>When you compared a 50mm f1.8 to an 85mm f1.8 the 85mm f1.8 was reading an 18 degree (measured diagonally)narrower field of light and this would account for your confusion.</em><p><p>I'm not at all sure that it would account for it even if differing width were relevant, but it isn't: I compared an 85mm f1.8 and an 85mm f1.8. And don't think I was confused at all: I was not rushed, and took my time. I <em>was</em> surprised, and remarked on the non-difference to the salesman, who didn't attempt to put me right in any way (even though he would have had a commercial incentive for doing so). It is indeed possible that I was confused, and/or that there was something odd about the F-1N that I examined, but nobody has yet explained how.</p>

[awahlster]

Sorry Peter not being able to see the post I was responding to while writing out my replay caused me to make a mistake.

 

What I guess I should have said that would have made more sense is that you made a mistake. As there is a differance between the two viewfinders ablity to pass light to the users eye. Unless there was something filtering the F-1N's ability to pass light it WAS brighter weather or not you could tell it looking into the viewfinder.

[peter_evans4]

Some day when I find myself in a store with my F-1n fitted with a commonly stocked kind of lens, I'll ask to look at/through and compare with a second F-1N with the same lens.

 

In the meantime, I really can't see how I could have made a mistake, unless conceivably the F-1N had not a New FD 85/1.8 but a New FD 85/2.8 on it and I didn't notice.

 

(Actually it was only yesterday that I learned of the existence of the 85/2.8 -- "portrait", with optional degrees of aspherical aberration -- which isn't so far off the physical size of the old FD 85/1.8. But surely I'd have noticed the high price and some odd control on the lens. Or the salesman would have pointed it out.)

[rdkirk]

>>Not all repair techs would agree with the superiority of the mechanical cameras. An Australian ex-Canon tech named Phil Aynsley used to post here, and he thought the F-1N was the superior camera. Among other things, the F-1N has a better meter, better shutter braking, and better weather seals.<<

 

The specific question I asked of the repairmen was "Which camera would you be able to maintain longer?" They all pointed to the fact that the electronics of the New F-1 would fail sooner or later, and unlike the F-1n, they would not be able to fabricate those parts, nor would they be as likely to cannibalize other cameras (because electroncs tend to fail from sheer age, rather than from level of use).

[doug_nelson1]

I have both the 2nd version and the new, both bought used. I have had more problems with the newest version. Among them have been a frozen ISO dial, rewind lever that refuses to activate, and a inaccurate light meter. Figuring in the electrical problems with capacitors and such, the new F-1 doesn't seem to age quite as well.

 

My solution has been, for a one time event or once in a lifetime trip, use the new F-1 for its superb viewfinder brightness (esp with the PJ screen), and aperture-priority auto exposure. Should it fail, have an older (1st or 2nd) F-1 on hand as a backup. I keep a SpeedFinder on my older F-1.

[peter_evans4]

<p><em>Should [the new F-1] fail, have an older (1st or 2nd) F-1 on hand as a backup.</em></p><p>While I have no opinion about the new F-1, I do think that the old F-1 is a good camera for many purposes. But I hardly think that these include backup camera (just in case a reputedly reliable camera fails). There are smaller, lighter options.</p>

[frederick_muller]

I'm going to draw a lot of heat for this, but here goes. I have Leicas, Bessas, and Canons. I have a F-1N AE and an old, first version F-1. I shoot with them all. The old, first version F-1 has the most beautiful black paint finish. You gotta love that.

[pensacolaphoto]

I have extensively used two F1N bodies and one F1n. The F1n was mostly used when I had very long exposures (30minutes-60 minutes) and I needed the mirror lock-up feature. The F1N is built 99% as strong as the F1n, and for all practical purposes, it is as reliable. People worry about availability of spare parts, but I don't think that this is a valid point anymore since so many people are dumping their film-based cameras. There are millions of FD users all over the use, and spare parts availability is not a problem.

[frederick_muller]

The old F-1 also has mirror lockup.