davidmccracken Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 I seem to remember a post from you in a recent forum about someone running a website where most of the images (including one or more of yours) had been stolen from photo.net. While I appreciate any half wit can steal images from the site, I feel Brian's most recent feature will make it possible for a complete wit to do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennyboy Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Brian,<br><br> Images upto about 700 pixels 'larger' view display as the normal unsized image, I'm not entirely sure of the actual limit, but 512 pixels (511 to be exact) is the size for images in the forums. So, by resizing to these dimensions the e-card feature DOES indeed display our images differently - if this is indeed what it does.<br><br> <a href=http://www.photo.net/photo/3991417>600 pixel example</a><br><br> <a hred=http://www.photo.net/photo/3842511>679 pixel example</a><br><br> I like the idea though, I can send photos of my kids directly to my family with even more ease now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennyboy Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 typod the <a href=http://www.photo.net/photo/3842511>2nd link</a> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tholte Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Walter, "Yeah...way to go Brian old buddy. This constitutes a significant change to this site, and a significant change to what I agreed when I first became a PhotoNet patron." I guess Brian should have cleared this new feature with you first, can't understand why he failed to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrell_m Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 yes ben, you can send your pictures a whole lot easier this way. And so can absolutely anyone else who visits your page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesBecker-Toronto Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 I think that Brian's idea is essentially a good one and he has addressed photographers concerns by agreeing to an opt in/opt out feature; this appears to be about as close as one can get to satisfying everyone. How's that for middle of the road diplomacy? cb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alejandrokeller Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 OK, I sent myself an ecard and now I see what you mean about the messages and the image quality. Darrell and the others have a point on both things. Why cant the image be displayed at the same size as they apear in the gallery photos, and not as an badly compressed JPEG? I do try to optimize my images for that size and you are throwing my whole work away... Secondly, I dont like at all that somebody can write comments to my pictures, and have those comments stored in the PN database, without me knowing it. If those comments are meant to be private, they should remain in the email and not linked to my images in the PN system. If PN is going to show them like that, the least I expect is that I am able to review them (but then, they would not be private of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartMoxham Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Whilst I can understand the concerns of others it has always been possible for people to send your pictures to others. I would guess that most people don't even send a link. They download them to their hardrives and send them as attachments. You can bet that most of the nudes on this site have been downloaded to hardrives and emailed thousands of times along with many of the other images complete with offensive comments. As photographers we have to be responsable for the images that we post. We have to accept that others will use the images for their own purposes and if we are that bothered then we should find other ways to share our images with others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mottershead Posted February 16, 2006 Author Share Posted February 16, 2006 The messages are stored only long enough for the recipients to read them, which is a few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingell Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Good work, Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennyboy Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 <i>Darrell M Photo.net Patron, feb 16, 2006; 07:02 a.m. yes ben, you can send your pictures a whole lot easier this way. And so can absolutely anyone else who visits your page.</i><br><br> More power to them, my photos are here so they can be viewed - otherwise what's the point?<br><br> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mottershead Posted February 16, 2006 Author Share Posted February 16, 2006 The opt-out is implemented. Subscribers can specify on a per-folder basis whether ecards are enabled or disabled for photos in that folder. The toggle is in the "Folder Options" for each folder. The default is enabled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmccracken Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Seeing as this forum seems to be whole heartedly(ish) embracing this new feature, I would like to say that Charles Becker's idea of having the ability to opt out is the best idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bens Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Thank you, Brian, simple, works beautifully, appreciate the ability to easily keep some in the ecard pool, while cabining off those I'm uncomfortable with making available. This thread reminds me of sausages -- the end product tastes great, but stay out of the kitchen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louis1 Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Why was my post deleted then. No it wasn't rude or offensive but it didn't say "well done". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mottershead Posted February 16, 2006 Author Share Posted February 16, 2006 I think this debate comes from the fact that photographers participating in this site have diverse goals. Many people are looking for a space where they can exhibit their photographs publicly and receive feedback, or at least visibility, from a wide audience. The audience delivered by photo.net to their portfolios includes other serious photographers, which is positive, but they recognize that the audience is, essentially, the wide public. These are probably the people who are monitoring the view counts on their photos carefully. This group may see photo.net as a simpler alternative to a personal portfolio web site, or perhaps they already have a personal web site and see their space here as a funnel for traffic to the personal web site, and as a way to gain more visibility for their work. For these folks the fact that photo.net has 180,000 visitors per day is one of its main attractions. I would expect that most people in this group would see the eCard feature as another way to attract viewers for their work, and would be in favor of it. Others see photo.net as a kind of Internet camera club, where the goal is to interact with other photographers and get feedback. For these people, exhibiting their work to "the public" is not a goal. Indeed it may be a negative feature. When they post here, they don't think of themselves as publishing the photos on the Internet. They are interested in receiving comments that will help them improve, and the support and encouragement from other photographers. This group likes the fact that photo.net describes itself as a "learning community for photographers". Those 180,000 people per day trampling around while the camera club is trying to hold its meeting, looking over the shoulders of the camera club members, gawking at the photos, maybe appropriating a few of them here or there for wallpaper or their blogs -- well, they are an annoyance or a distraction. This group are the people who tend to think that rating/commenting should be limited to subscribers, and probably wouldn't mind if photo.net were a subscriber-only site. I would expect this group to be at best indifferent to the eCard feature, and many of them won't like it because increased visibility for their work isn't a goal, and the eCards represent a loss of control of their work. I'd like photo.net to serve both groups. But if anybody is wondering how I think of the photo.net Gallery, and where I put the emphasis -- well, it isn't called the "Gallery" for no reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mottershead Posted February 16, 2006 Author Share Posted February 16, 2006 Louis, when I deleted it, I sent you an email asking you to repost it in this thread. Check your email. The reason the thread was deleted that we already have this thread on the same topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlesBecker-Toronto Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 actually, the ability to opt out was not my idea at all; I was just reminding folks that due to some concerns, Brian had already agreed to this feature. With Brian's latest post, this should please both groups he mentioned that make up the users of this site. David-don't tell me we actually agree on something! :0) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bens Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Thanks Brian, appreciate your summary, its a fair one. I might add, as I've learned sorting out my feelings in this discussion, that you can be in either camp depending on the photograph -- I've been wondering how to get wider distribution of the flower photos I've done for example and like this feature for them, as well as the chance to help the site attract more viewers with that work. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurie_m Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 In the other post you refer to, the issue was that the person lifted the photos and posted them on his site with no photographer's credit and no link back to PN or the photographer's community page. The photos were displayed as if they were his own work. That is a violation of copyright. While I understand the concerns with the e-card feature, it isn't a copyright violation. Only a link is sent with the card. The recipient must click the link which then takes them to the image on the PN site with the photographers name clearly posted under the image. I guess my point is that people were stealing images long before this feature. If someone's is inclined to do that, they don't need the e-card to accomplish the deed. For people who do portraits, nudes, etc., I can see where making it easier for people to send links to your images may not be as welcome. I do have a confession. On several occasions, I've sent links to your photos to my sister. She's a secret admirer of your work. She refers to you as the "Pepper Guy" (she's bad at remembering names) Brian's opt-out compromise will hopefully be the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmccracken Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Maybe I missed something. I didn't see Brian's comment about opting out. (It's late here and I need to sleep.) It was a suggestion made by someone else and I hope it is implemented. My point was that since there are more non registered visitors on this site than registered then a simple link to send ecards will put the images in direct hands of those that would not visit the site normally. This is why I feel it is a cheap attempt to attract more people to the site which I truly feel will attract people with no interest in photography. I do feel more photographs will be stolen because of this. Your sister has impeccable taste. Give her my regards and keep sending her my links. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bens Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Brian, in thinking more about your summary, I assume you understand that you are representing to ends of a continuum, and that there are many people somewhere inbetween. For example, I do enjoy the learning community, obviously [or duh! as my daugher might say] but would not like ratings and comments limited to subscribers, and enjoy and recognize that I am "publishing on the Internet." But regardless of the wide distribution given to what I post, I value it most for the feedback I get, not for the sake of distributing it. I'm sure others can give you many different permutations on your descriptions as well. I raise the issue because I think its not an either/or, that uses of the site are quite varied and complicated, and that the diversity makes the place stronger. I support the big tent -- including those who come to look at photos because they like pictures, even for ecards -- their appreciation, and feedback possibly, of works here ca be valuable as well. I urge you to consider, to the extent you market this ecard idea, that you do so with a special attention to preserving the public perception of this as a place for serious photographers and those who appreciate serious photography. Its essential to retain quality photographers' participation I think (though we can all take this stuff too seriously, I think). Marketing the ecard option with that in mind might help to keep the cheese potential to at least the low-fat variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kathywilson Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 I like the idea. But as soon as I saw the feature go in I knew there'd be a thread like this... BUT -- anyone posting their work online is aware of the risks or should be. If you're not willing to accept them, stop posting. This feature doesn't violate copyright, and in pointing the viewer back to my image, perhaps more ppl will see it -- which is why I post in the first place. (in order to get critique etc) I've learned a lot here in the last year, and it's been worth every penny of my subscription. Control is an illusion, and even more so once you let your creation loose on the internet. If you want total control, don't post. In the mean time, I'm going to enjoy the new feature! (and go take more pictures!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartMoxham Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 The only thing I would like to add is I hope Brian has taken precautions to prevent people from using the PN mail server for spamming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayme Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Laurie makes the point again, anyone can steal your image off PN at anytime & most other sites too. Why would Brian's new e-card pose a problem. It's nice that Brian wrote an "Opt out", but if you think that this will stop any individual from stealing an image & copying it & making a card or writing a nasty note on it, it won't. Ben- I agree about children. I post a lot of my own grandchildren, but I would never post any one else's child that I had not explained the situation to the parents & they fully understood. For that matter, I wouldn't post an image of any person without this explanation & signed release. I can undersstand your concern, but...... if you are concerned about something bad happening, you should not post them on PN & most other places on the net. There are some places on the net that don't allow you to copy the images. I have no problem with other's copying my stuff, as Kim stated, posting in low resolution, helps prohibit printing of any real quality. I personally have sent a few e-cards & I really like it! I'm always amazed at those that just can't navigate themselves to PN or any site for that matter. This helps them out. Thanks Brian! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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