DMR (Update) and M7, 50/1.4 ASPH ... Go to Hollywood.

[EricM]

Well, the forth pic of Marc's is probably the best here for tech aspects. Lots of detail in the grip truck and in the sky and in the shade. Need to shoot with three others cams at the same time though to see how much crunching and blocking goes on when compared.

[nels]

Here's ISO 1000 from 5D at 1/15 sec. hand-held, no noise reduction applied.<br><br>

<center><img src="http://i.pbase.com/o4/35/596435/1/55601956._MG_1880_small.jpg"></center>

[vivek iyer]

You are right, Eric. My half an eye was not working properly. The 4th is a very nice demo shot.

[EricM]

nice shot Nels

[nels]

Thanks, Eric. If it was shot with a DMR (I doubt how, but work with me here), I would have raved about its dynamic range and other qualities. But since it's a shot from a humble camera that is only 75% of 1DsII, I'll be content calling it a snapshot.

[jackflesher]

Well, I guess I'll jump in on this one... <P>

 

For those that don't know me, I USED to be a regular poster here in the Leica forum -- for those that do remember me, hello again! <P>

 

FWIW, I happened to be in Mexico with Guy when he took some of the above images. I have a few similar I took with my Canon 1D2 and I'll try and insert a few of them for comparison at the end of this post. <P>

 

But before I do, let me just say there is something unique about the files the DMR produces. I think a lot of it has to do with the glass, but that isn't all of it, since I use both CZ and Leica glass on my Canons and I don't get the same look. I think Marc summed the subtleties up perfectly so I won't repeat them here. <P>

 

I am not sure the DMR has any extra DR over the Canon 1's, but it certainly handles the DR it has better in the shadows -- I saw this first hand in Mexico when Guy and I were processing our raw files. Yes, I am facile with my raw converter and Photoshop and can get excellent results with my Canons, but the DMR still takes first prize IMO -- and I am NOT a Leica shooter any more... (Guy says Yet ;) ) <P>

 

Here are a few of my Canon shots from Mexico. More can be found here: <a href="http://jack.cameraphile.org/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=album12">Jack's Mexico Gallery</a> <p>

 

Fountain Flowers: <br>

<img src="http://jack.cameraphile.org/albums/album12/foutainflower.jpg"> <P>

Ruins: <br>

<img src="http://jack.cameraphile.org/albums/album12/ruins.jpg"> <P>

Folks Waiting: <br>

<img src="http://jack.cameraphile.org/albums/album12/folks.jpg"> <P>

 

And one last one for high-contrast AM light, Dog-walk: <br>

<img src="http://jack.cameraphile.org/albums/album12/dogwalk.jpg">

[guy_mancuso]

Okay how did you get them so big. geez feel like mouse photos i am posting. LOL

[brambor]

Good post Jack. What lenses did you have in your bag?

[guy_mancuso]

Just so you all know the tricks in raw processing and PS come a lot from Jack. He is a master here. When i need something figured out his phone rings

[vivek iyer]

Is the framed photos > 1000 pixels an EOS thing? Lovely frames though.

 

Hey Nels, Nice Rolleiflex shot! The square format works ver well for this inspite of the frame. Fill in all the scanner details, please.

[brambor]

Guy, jack has them on his website in the size he wants and links them here as opposed to you uploading them here. All you need is to link them from your web site (or www.flickr.com) is to write

<img src="http://www.yourwebsite.com/yourpic.jpg">

 

...and don't forget to select The above text is HTML

[nels]

Vivek - It's the new Leica APO Macro Elmar ASPH Grain Buster scanner.

[guy_mancuso]

Thanks Rene . I will have to load some things there and link them

[vivek iyer]

APO Macro Elmar ASPH grain buster?! Nice grab (the picture), Nels.

[nels]

Here's an ISO 50 scan.<br><br>

<center><img src="http://i.pbase.com/o4/35/596435/1/55596108.St.PetersCathedral6.jpg"></center>

[jackflesher]

>> <i>Good post Jack. What lenses did you have in your bag?</i> << <P>

 

Hi Rene! I took three lenses to mexico, all zooms; 17-40, 24-105 IS and 75-300 IS (old style). Most of the images I took were captured with the 24-105. <P>

 

Cheers,

[jackflesher]

>> <i>Is the framed photos > 1000 pixels an EOS thing? Lovely frames though.</i> << <P>

 

Not really an EOS thing, more like an old man with bad eyes thing LOL! I like to be able to see <i>some</i> detail in the images I post ;) -- sorry if it offended to have them this big. <P>

[vivek iyer]

Jack, Thanks for your post. I agree with what Renee said about it.

[vivek iyer]

That should have been Rene (sorry guy, one of these days I will get it right).

 

Jack, Lovely captures. Never mind my dig at the size.

[chuck_jones2]

Wow, what a thread this is turning out to be ;=) I've sat here reading with great interest,

deciding not to post anything myself until cooler heads seemed to prevail.

 

I should start with a small bit of background. I now own two of these Leica DMR things,

one on an R8 that I have had for many years, and the other on a newly purchased R9. I

shoot little film these days, save for the occasional M outing, having shot digital for about

ten years now, at least in part. I also own and shoot two MF digital backs. I had ordered

my DMR over two years before it actually shipped, and kept my R around waiting for it. I

also owned every Canon digital camera that has come down the pike, with the exception of

the 5D. Like you Marc, I had a fortune tied up in "L" glass and Canon bodies. Today, I

have even more tied up in Leica R gear, and have practically sold off all of my Canon. And

here is why:

 

First, let me comment on your Original question. The DMR will shoot at ISO 1600. You

just need to enable it on the menu first, so it shows up in the selections. I tried it once,

and promptly dialed back to ISO 800 with -1 exposure comp instead. But it will do it if

you want.

 

I have always been one that loved the look from Leica lenses. And completely agree that

they are warmer with far better micro contrast than my Canon glass. Or my Zeiss MF glass

that has a cooler look. I love my M lenses for the look they produce. I love my R glass for

the same reasons. I also love the look from my 40 year old Angenieux zoom, which is a

far different look than any of my other glass. It's the glass that delivers the mojo for me,

not the body. Shooting film, you just needed something to hold the film nice and tight,

even with the focus plane. With digital, it's a brave new world.

 

The DMR was a joint development of three companies. Leica, who paid the bills, acted as

the project manager, and developed the mechanical parts; Imacon prior to their merger

who developed the software; and Kodak, that great yellow father who provided the sensor

and related electronics to meet the Leica design specifications. It is worth noting that

combined, these three have far more experience in their respective fields of contribution

than any other single company or combination of companies I can think of. Each is a

recognized expert in their respective fields. This was a difficult development to meet the

stringent specifications too, as evidenced by the actual end product being delayed by over

a year getting into the marketplace. Applaud them, or curse them, Leica is a company

with very rigid ideas when it comes to the ultimate photographic camera, and their own

philosophy on just how a camera should operate. A philosophy that suits my own

preferences perfectly, I mite add, though others do feel differently about this.

 

There are three things I find my Leica give me that my Canon do not. First is the image

"look." This is no doubt very much a factor of the glass, so I won't beat that dead horse

further.

 

Second is the way the camera itself functions. It is a manual camera, where I am required

to do almost everything. I like that. My bodies practically live in "M" mode. Once in

awhile in Aperture Priority. But never in any type of program mode. I like manual focus,

as it allows me to decide where the focal plane falls, not some set of electronics that relies

on finding a contrast difference in the frame. And frequently misses. I shoot mostly

documentary, environmental portraits, and lifestyle with my 35mm gear. I hate looking at

images on my computer where I nailed thee moment, only to realize that my autofocus

decided the ears were more important than the eyes. Or the nose. I also can't stand

having to carry around a stinking manual or a cheat sheet just to remember how to do

mirror lockup. Or finding it almost mandatory to grow a third hand to reset the ISO on the

fly. I hate buttons, but love analog dials that spin around to the settings you need. I hate

needing to lower the camera from my eye to change any settings that relate to my process

of capturing an image. Just as I hate even having to think about what the correct

combination of button presses, wheel selection, wheel spins, etc. are required to set my

camera where I want it. Bottom line, I hate the demands on my concentration of the digital

cameras made by most Japanese companies. I want the camera to stay out of my way, so I

can concentrate on shooting the moments. Huge advantage, Leica/DMR.

 

The third reason is the dynamic range and color the DMR delivers. For the record, the

Kodak CCD sensor has got a S/N ratio of 74. And they do use a 16 bit A/D converter.

And yes, the sensor is mounted in a very well designed metal case, that does wick the heat

from the electronics away from the sensor and outside the body through that metal case.

They also use some firmware tricks to give the final image a much lower noise profile than

just a strait math formula would suggest should be possible. A full two stop advantage

over even my 1Ds2, from my studio tests. Very close to the dynamic range I get from my

MF digital backs. One of which, my Jenoptik, is even actively cooled.

 

But all the "techie" pixel peeping stuff aside, the real world images are what count. With

the DMR, I can shoot an outdoor scene in bright sunlight, with elements of the scene in

shadow, and not worry about holding the blue in the sky. I hate white sky except on

overcast days. I can shoot a portrait subject on his horse, wearing a huge Mexican

Sombrero, and not worry about having detail in the shadow across his face. Fantastic.

Something that always made me use fill flash with my Canons I now shoot with the

confidence I have all the shadow detail I could ever want. For night shooting, the DMR is a

dream come true, provided you pre-focus or set up hyperfocal distance first. I shot a

street fireworks series just a couple months ago that honestly I could not believe the

images I was getting. Color in the fireworks, and still plenty of detail in everything else. I

was amazed. If I can figure out how to post an image here, I will upload one for you to

see.

 

In the end, the Leica R/DMR is clearly not a camera for everyone. For myself, and for

several other working photographers, both professional and serious amatures, it is a God

send. A creative tool that allows me to execute my vision, my way, while providing me

with very usable extensions no other camera on the market today can offer. Just my own

opinion, your own may vary.<div></div>

[nels]

I can only hope this thread ends with a group hug.

[nels]

Oh, and nobody says the word "microcontrast" during group hug, please.

[vivek iyer]

Wow! Chuck's post addresses all the 'expert' opinions above it.

 

Microcontrast, yes, a real thing, Nels.

[fotografz]

Here's an interesting quote from the director of photography at my TV shoot ... " Is that

the Leica digital? Hmmm, you go right to the top of the food chain huh?" (He was

shooting some of his set-ups with a Nikon digital). I showed him some of the shots and he

was greatly impressed, and stated that the lenses were still the best out there.

 

This is not an attack on Nikon or Canon digital cameras, at least not from me. However, I

am quite comfortable attacking Canon for their wide angle offerings including the 24/1.4

and 35/1.4, if for no other reason than barrel distortion.

 

I shoot with a 5D and a 1DsMKII. These are my most used, workhorse wedding cameras.

Nels' nice pic demonstrates why ... AF and high ISO performance for a start.

 

However, that specific pic doesn't present the dynamic range challenge I'm referring to.

That happens at a wedding at dead noon, and 2 people are walking toward you in open

sun ... dressed in all white and all black. Conditions where the Canons struggle with the

range even using fill flash.

 

After shooting thousands of wedding images where you HAVE to get the shots, and don't

get a second chance, I HAVE to have deep confidence in the gear. Canon has earned that.

 

So, despite the speculation, I'm not delusional about the DMR. It will never be more than a

supplemental choice for weddings for reasons other than image quality. That's why I took

it on this trip, to get better at it, before counting on it as an occasional alternative to the

Canons.

 

What I intended here was an assurance that those Leica R users with a substantial

investment in R glass, who like their R system, DO have a highly capable camera in the

DMR. One that's a joy to use, and provides excellent images that can hold their own with

some of the best out there.

 

Frankly, I don't like shooting with Canon cameras. They really are just a tool. I like the

Leica because it's more fun for me, more tactile, simpler, more manual ... and the pics do

look different in a way I like.

 

I have shot thousands of pics with the 5D. Take my word for it, as nice as that camera is,

when it comes to ISO 100 to 400 image quality ... it's no Leica DMR.

 

The DMR is expensive? Duh, what Leica anything isn't?

[jackflesher]

Hey Chuck!

 

I'm glad you posted here... Do me a favor and post the shot of Guy lighting up I took with your DMR and 15mm lens... I think it was hand-held, wide open at f2.8, 1/8th sec? Anyway, I want to re-inforce TWO points Marc made: 1) Manual focus is not all that tough with a bright viewfinder like the R8/9's, and 2) being able to see AROUND the outside of the frame is a huge benefit!

 

The image I hope Chuck posts is one of my first ever with the DMR...