katherine_jones2 Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 I have been thinking of getting a DSLR. I thought I had narrowed my choices down to Olympus E300/500, or much more likely Pentax *ist DL/DS. I already have Pentax lenses. Good job I didn't just mail order the cheapest Pentax I found. I went into my local store and the ergonomics on these cameras is horrific. I quickly realised that I hold my Super A with my left hand (i.e. with the side opposite the grip), but this is OK on the Super A as there is space both to the left and to the right of the lens, despite it being a very small camera I find it comfy. This doesn't seem to be the case on the new DSLRs, leaving left handers stuffed. Plus, even the Pentax, which is light by digital standards is heavy, so I find it very awkward to hold with my right hand. I tried the E300 which is much better (but does feel like a brick), as I could hold it with the left hand. Only problem being I end up touching all those buttons to the left of the LCD (also a problem on the Pentax). However, I see the E500 is going with the asymetrical trend. What happens if you don't actually have a right hand?! Cameras never used to be so asymmetrical. Maybe all left handers have to use rangefinders or compact cameras these days. How do other left handers cope, or is it just me? I kind of think if I am going to pay a lot of money for a camera it must be comfortable to hold or I'll just end up using my film camera all the time when travelling-I really couldn't use the Pentax *ist DL with my left hand- it just slips off. Shame as I loved the way the DL tells you when things are in focus, and I have a nice lot of MF Pentax primes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bytesmiths Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 All cameras for decades have had the shutter release convenient to the right hand only. How did you use those cameras? Did you hold it strictly with the left hand, and reach out with your right to push the shutter release? I'm sorry for not being more sympathetic, but I suggest you simply learn to conform -- as lefties must do in so many things. What do you do in your car, reach over and shift with your left hand? (Move to England! :-) Also what I suggest to my students is that they use their left hand as a cradle, not as a grip. Make your left hand a flat platform, upon which you place the camera. The fingers of the left hand then conveniently reach the zoom and focus on the lens. This is how I use my E300, and all other cameras I own. Don't feel too bad -- right-handed people are normally left-eyed, yet the camera makers make it difficult or impossible to use your left eye. Also, the eye preference in most people is minor, compared to handedness. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobatkins Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 What you need is a Yashica Samuari ZL. Pity they haven't made them since around 1990! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Ingold Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 You won't get much sympathy from me. I'm left-handed and have no problem whatsoever using a "right-handed" camera. Hey, ya' hold the camera and push da' button. It's not quite as demanding as engraving a new $10 bill. Otherwise, there are prosthetics for every purpose, at a price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_albert Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 You could try and find a camera that still uses a threaded cable release, like the Nikon D100. Attach the release and tape it to the oposite side. You now can control the shutter left handed. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katherine_jones2 Posted October 25, 2005 Author Share Posted October 25, 2005 I might add that in most things I am usually pretty ambidextrous. I sometimes am forced to write with my right hand (when holding things with my left hand for work), use scissors with my right hand etc. etc. I have no problem with the shutter release being on the right hand side. Have used lots of 80s MF cameras no problem (e.g. Olympus OM, Pentax ME super, super A, Canon AE-1 program). My problem is holding heavy things in my right hand. If there is a bit to the left of the lens I can hold with my left hand. The E-300 is just about there, shame I am confined to this as a choice (although I loved the kit lens-v.nice zoom action, felt well built). It might seem trivial, but I can hand hold at reasonable shutter speeds. My right hand is weaker so I suspect I'll get wobbly shots. I'm wanting to do some handhold macro stuff so this is important. I am also strongly left eyed, and found the Olympus not so great for this. However, all the talk of the viewfinder is rubbish. I liked it, and I am used to big film viewfinders. I was expecting a much smaller one given how people have gone on about it. I guess I'm stuck. I'll try the Olympus again as the Pentax is out. The one good thing about film cameras is that they had to have a bit of space to the left of the lens as well as the right. I didn't realise I had been clinging to this bit of space for years, shame I didn't get taught to hold it like a right hander (just as I have learnt to do everything else right handed because it is difficult to copy things the opposite way round!). It is easy to say get on with it, but when you pick up every camera in the store and have difficulty holding it, it gets frustrating. Like I say, I've never felt this about the old metal film tanks, despite the lack of fancy grips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katherine_jones2 Posted October 25, 2005 Author Share Posted October 25, 2005 I might add I am in England, so gear stick no problem. It wasn't a problem when I drove a car in Spain either though.... I realise most left handed people have no problems with cameras. I think I am just an anomaly. Nothing else about being a lefty really bothers me. I think the 'brick' might be the solution (and at least I can get their new 35mm macro). It shows the importance of how a camera feels in the hand, as well as all the specs you read about... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitworth photography Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 I'm left-handed, but prefer cameras to stay the way they are. I don't mind supporting the camera using my right hand, and can more easily support the lens by holding it with my left hand which allows me to use my left hand to control zoom and move the camera around for composition. All my right hand does is provide a little support and "push the button". So even though technically I guess my camera would be considered right-handed, to me I'm doing what's important with my left hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_gage Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 I guess I don't really see what the problem is. I'm right handed and I use my left hand to support my cameras (Pentax IST DS included); but I do as Jan suggested earlier in the thread. I let the camera rest in my left hand instead of trying to grip the edge. My right hand does very little (if any) supporting of the camera while my left hand cradles it. I see what you're saying about the way you hold a camera, but try supporting it in your left hand instead of holding it with your left hand. I think you'll find it more stabil and less strenuous. Since you use manual focus lenses also I'm surprised you don't do this already. It makes focusing and shooting much easier since you don't have to change your grip between focusing and shooting. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katherine_jones2 Posted October 25, 2005 Author Share Posted October 25, 2005 Will try cradling suggestions-sounds easier than clawing for edges like I was today! Thinking about it, the way I currently hold the camera my right hand is constantly moving from lens focus ring to shutter, which is a bit pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katherine_jones2 Posted October 25, 2005 Author Share Posted October 25, 2005 Thanks for the answers btw. Sometimes the obvious solution is not that obvious or that complicated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
conrad_hoffman Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 I'm not a leftie, and I haven't tried this with a digital, but with my SLR I often use a contoured hand grip that holds my flash. I actually like using it even without the flash, as it gives the camera a nice handle. You can insert a cable release in the grip, so the shutter is tripped with the left hand. Can't remember the name, and they seem to cost way more than when I bought mine decades ago, but it might be the answer for you. If I were going to use one with a small digital, I'd probably saw the end off to match the size of the camera. Email me if you need a photo of the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_gage Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 "Thinking about it, the way I currently hold the camera my right hand is constantly moving from lens focus ring to shutter, which is a bit pointless." I think (hope) you'll be kicking yourself for not doing this sooner. If you hold it right your left thumb and fore finger fall right on the focus ring. Thinking about it in my head I think I cradle the lens just as much as I do the camera with my left hand. I guess you'll just have to try out different positions; I think you'll find one that fits though. Good luck, Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanford Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 I'm left handed and left eyed and have been coping with a right handed world all my life. Just learn to cope... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godfrey Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 I'm right handed. But ... I don't support my camera with my right hand. My left hand does all the heavy lifting. My right hand is for operating the controls and releasing the shutter. Cup the bottom of the camera in the palm of your left hand, with your fingers reaching forward to support the lens and work the focus/zoom control. Your right hand sits lightly on the controls, holding the hand grip. When you release the shutter, exhale and squeeze the camera between your right palm and your forefinger. This works to help stabilize the camera nicely as well as keep it steady during the exposure. It's worked on every eye-level camera I've owned. A hand strap (I use a Hakuba Grip-LH, about $18 from B&H) also helps secure the camera nicely in your grip. You might consider one of them too. I hope you can make up your mind and get whichever camera you end up wanting soon. Godfrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcuknz Posted October 25, 2005 Share Posted October 25, 2005 personally I am of the opinion that whoever designed the original Leica camera was left eye'd becuase most cameras have followed his layout and I feel quite sorry for right eye'd folk trying to use them, at least for the vertical format. Apart from being left eyed I'm pretty ambidextrous but would hate to try and shoot right eye'd :-) I've used a typewriter/computer for the last 55 years and I cannot write well with either hand. If you look at the advanced pro-sumer cameras from the likes of Panasonic you will find that they 'sit' in your right hand as if an extension. The FZ series range from the very light and compact, delightful little cameras, through to the DSLR look alike the FZ30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_lewis3 Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 If you want a camera for ergonomics try the Konica Minolta 7d, it wont help you with your left/right problem or use you lenses but it is a very comfortable camera to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_murray Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Thinking about it, the way I currently hold the camera my right hand is constantly moving from lens focus ring to shutter, which is a bit pointless. This is no way to use any camera, You must have a very low percent of keepers if there is any action at all. Your grip on the edges of the camera body is always going to be unstable. The left hand goes under the camera body with just 2 fingers around the lens barrel to focus with and right hand ready to squeeze the shutter. Very stable. I think you said something about macro shots handheld, get a tripod results will be many times better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_kothanek1 Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 I am left handed it sounds more like you need to train yourself to properly hold the camera as an earlier post said moving back and forth to the shutter release and lens seems to be terribly inefficient and cumbersome. Sometimes we develop a wrong or bad habit on the most simple of tasks. I think if you forced yourself to slow down and carefully work with the more typical form of shooting you'd quickly adapt to the correct form. The ability of humans to develop a certain muscle memory is astounding. In example in my past profession I trained a lot for close quarter battle shooting (entry/shooting in a hostile building or room) some 5 yrs later when I do my monthly trip to the pistol range I am amazed at how my muscle memory leads me to the exact same hold and position. After thousands of rounds I can literally shoot with my eyes closed and be relatively accurate, since it is such a repeatable function. So ultimately I suggest 'forcing' yourself to adopt the standard camera "hold" and it *should* become natural relatively fast... Unless of course you are also "left eyed" in that case it is nearly impossible of not impossible to retrain an eye to be as proficient or comfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katherine_jones2 Posted October 26, 2005 Author Share Posted October 26, 2005 I don't do action photography. I can actually handhold down to some pretty good speeds, so it isn't like my grip is complete rubbish. Around 50% of my shots are in vertical format (and a lot of my successful shots) and I find this particularly hard with the digital SLRs I have tried. Have tried out the suggested grip with my Super A, but not yet with digital. Have to say it is still difficult. Maybe it is my small hands. I seem to have to twist my wrist a bit to focus as suggested with the left hand and the weight of the camera seems to pull on my arm. Perhaps it will be more comfortable with a digital.It certainly seems wobblier-when I gripped the camera with my left hand I could push it towards my face which seemed quite stable. I'm sure I'll come up with something, but hopefully I won't have to use the camera upside down like some people! For still macro shots I use a tripod. However I need to photograph live animals held in peoples hands e.g. zebra finches. This cannot be done with a tripod. I don't mind using one, I just can't in these particular circumstances and need to rely on hand holding. I've had mixed results with film. Digital would allow me to experiment more and take more shots, plus up the speed from 100! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordan2240 Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Katherine, If you're physically capable, get thee to a gym and seek out the weights, and eventually you'll be able to hold the camera in whichever hand you'd like. That said, using a camera is much like playing a musical instrument. Each hand has a specific role, and you simply learn to use them as the instrument requires. That's the cheaper option anyway. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katherine_jones2 Posted October 26, 2005 Author Share Posted October 26, 2005 I guess I am just a weakling. However, I tried holding the E300 again, and I think this is the way to go. It felt better somehow this time-maybe it was all the advice on how to hold it rubbing off! I think I better grab the E300 before it gets ditched as all DSLRs seem to be morphing into the same shape. Downside is I might have to sell some of my Pentax gear which has served me so well :-( Still the ist seems to have revived ebay prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordan2240 Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 Katherine, It really seems a bit of a waste to render all of those lenses useless. I have the Pentax *istDS, and though I have nothing to compare it to, it fits my relatively small hands very well. In fact, the ergonomics are an oft-noted plus in many of the reviews for that camera. But, I'm sure you aren't the only one whom it doesn't suit. Perhaps you should give it one more try though with your newfound technique. Whatever you end up with, you'll no doubt have fun with it. Digital is so cool. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w_t1 Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 use your left thumb for shutter release.... i'm not complaining about the ergonomics of my rollei 35se camera. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w_t1 Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 do everything with your right hand for a week that you normallly do with your left... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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