Print Catalog Expects Free Photography?

[tom_luongo1]

<p>I'm not sure how I feel about this response I received from a

sunglass manufacturer when I suggested they pay usage fees for shots

of a bike rider they'd like to use. Feels like they want to take

advantage of me. At that very least, it sounds like they are

oblivious about getting releases for the pool of photos they are

talking about. (In the original correspondence, they offered a

credit line on the photos.)

 

<p>If they want the freedom to use these for advertising, why

wouldn't they they have budget to pay for photo use? I wasn't

expecting a lot. If they had even offered 25USD conditional on

acceptance would have been okay.

 

<p>And how the hell can they be going to press in 'a week or so' when

they haven't even made final selection of the photos? Is that just a

time pressure tactic?

 

<p>I'm considering sending the images with a note that they may be

put in the pool. Then if the company decides to use them, I'd have

more leverage to develop a relationship.

 

<p>Anyone else have any comments?

 

<blockquote>

Tom - thanks for your email. We wanted to have them in the pool of

500 pictures that we use for the catalog and advertising. I was not

aware when these photos were sent that you are professional

photographer. We don't have nay budget for photos but we can offer

some <em>company name</em> Sunglasses in an exchange. We are on a

tight deadline. IN a week or so we will be going to press.

 

<p>So let me know if a product swap for a couple of shades works. No

guarantee we would actually use them they would just be in the pool.

</blockquote>

 

WIth my preceding email, I tried to be open to building a

relationship with them.

 

<blockquote>

Hi <em>CEO name here</em>,

 

<p>I'm very pleased that <em>company name</em> is interested in my

photos of <em>bike rider name</em>. Could you send more more

information about where you will use the photos (print catalog/web

site/marketing materials, etc) and in what sizes? And is it possible

to pay me for the use of the photos?

 

<p>I understand that a limited budget might restrict the amounts you

are able to pay, but I'm also willing to give an introductory

discount on usage fees in exchange for the prospect of doing more

work with you next season. I'd be happy to watch for other

<em>company name</em> riders whenever I'm taking photos at races in

the Boston/New England area.

 

<p>The uncropped high-res version of these files are 20 megabyte

Photoshop files. It will be necessary to either mail CDs or arrange

for FTP transfer of the files. If preferable, I could also send the

original raw camera 'digital negatives'.

 

<p>Thanks,<br>

Tom Luongo

</blockquote>

The sponsored riders in question aren't necessarily high level

riders. The company has a sponsorship program for a broad range of

ability levels - I think they provide free product to selected riders

which is more than most get.

<p>The kind of the photos in question can be seen at <a

href="http://luongophoto.smugmug.com/Cyclocross/134460">http://luongop

hoto.smugmug.com/Cyclocross/134460</a>

<p>Thanks.

[mikael_karlsson]

Tom:

 

Sounds like a classic example of them - the manufacturer - trying to get something for nothing. Personally, whenever someone mentions "you'll get exposure and we'll include your name" I know I'm dealing with either a noob or someone who's trying to use my images for free and I politely thank them for their interest and hang up. There's this one magazine in my area of specialization (police, prisons, forensics etc) that is notoriously trying to get permission to use images on the insides of their mag for $25 flat fee. They have someone call me and try every year or so and I always laugh at them and hang up.

 

Exposure is almost never worth it. Unless you have a bsuiness making portraits of people in sunglasses and they would send the catalogue only to that targeted group it'd be a waste.

 

Tell them your normal licensing fee for this type of usage is $300 per image per usage, or whatever it might be. If you don't have a license fee, register at corbis.com or alamy.com and put the parameters into their pricing calculator to come up with a fee.

 

Hope that helps.

[conraderb]

if it's a real magazine, they have plenty of $$ to pay for their images - $25 is nothing for an image. my college alumni magazine (circulation 3,000, quarterly), pays me more than $25 for one time use of an image :-)

[conraderb]

Sorry - I didn't realize that this is for a company's ads, not for a magazine. Still, if they are trying to run a for-profit company making shades, so are you. Take the shades if you would use them, but remember that they aren't a charity, and neither are you.

[photomark]

I get this a lot. When I was first starting out I would end up caving for an insulting rate

thinking that the goodwill I earned would pay off. It just doesn't happen. The credit line is

almost worthless for something like this and the only good will you receive is a client who

knows that you don't value your own work. You need to ask yourself what you gain by

giving a for-profit company your property. I'm confident you will arrive at the same answer

everyone else arrives at--nothing. When I get these requests I now politly ask how many

other people involved in the project are working pro-bono? Is the printer printing the

catalog for a credit line? Is the post office mailing them in exchange some sunglasses? Ask

if ANYONE, in fact is lifting a finger without being paid other than the photographer. If you

can't negotiate a decent fee, just say no.

[qtluong]

<i>If they had even offered 25USD conditional on acceptance would have been okay.</i>

<p>

Please educate yourself on industry-standard rates. For instance, this

<a href = "http://www.terragalleria.com/stock-photography.html">stock photography page</a> has links to a number of price tables (scroll to the bottom).

<p>

<i>And is it possible to pay me for the use of the photos?</i>

<p>

You started poorly with this sentence. You should assume that they would pay you, otherwise there is no point of even trying to do business with them. No wonder you got that reply.

[garry edwards]

I sympathise, but do you feel that <i>"And is it possible to pay me for the use of the photos?

 

I understand that a limited budget might restrict the amounts you are able to pay, but I'm also willing to give an introductory discount on usage fees in exchange for the prospect of doing more work with you next season."</i>may have contributed to the problem?<p>Personally I would have said something like "Thank you for your interest. The one time usage fee in your publication will be X per image"

[tom_luongo1]

Well taken point from both Quang-Tuan and Garry regarding my use of the phrase "is it possible". Thank you. And Quang-Tuan's web site makes some particularly killer points on this topic.

 

I also realize now that compared to the per page cost of printing and producing some of those materials, the schedule for the photography use amounts to only a few cents!

 

Thanks again.

[Jerry_]

You can always decline the offer. And request return of your images.

 

 

 

The IRS (bless 'em) has a form for barter and exhange of goods. The company with no money and you will have a fun time filling out the information at tax time....

[rubens_abboud]

One final point... if the images will be used to promote products and services of this company, have these riders signed model releases for these images of them to be used in a promotional context?

<p>This might be included in the riders'r sponsorship deal with the company, but this should be confirmed and not taken for granted.</p>

<p>Best regards,</p>

<p>Rubens.<br>

<a href="http://www.TheImageNation.com">http://www.TheImageNation.com</a><br>

Travel stock photography<br>

</p>