Crud on my E6 slides

[robert goldstein]

I have been using a local lab for E6 processing, and the last two batches of film have come

back loaded with black particulate matter. It cannot be seen with the naked eye, but is

readily visible on scans. What is the likely problem, and where can I get high quality

processing?

[manjo]

Try A&I mailers or Fuji mailers (cheaper), I have used fuji a lot and always got good results.

[g._armour_van_horn]

What do they say about it? If they're anything like the rest of us running small labs, E-6 volume is dropping and if the particulate is noticeable only on projection or scanning, it would hardly be normal to start running finished slides through a scanner. If the system has been working normally, and nothing seems out of whack on the light table when they package the slides, their only hope is for you to bring them in and go over it. Actually, I suspect that most of us don't do much more than watch the images as the film goes through the mounter (it's backlit at that stage). If it can't be detected by eye, we're not likely to catch a process change right away.

 

I don't think you want to contribute to the closing of another local lab, particularly one that has always done a good job for you in the past.

 

Now, if they just shrug their shoulders and show no sign of wanting to fix their process, come on back and ask again. Make sure you include little details like where you are located and how much time you typically have to get your E-6 souped. There are still lots of good labs still out there, just a lot fewer than there were five years ago.

 

Van

[mendel_leisk]

Post a crop. If it's obviously intermittent, it's likely due sloppy processing. But if it's this all pervasive, wall-to-wall fine stuff, it could be pepper grain, something *in* the structure of the film.

[mike_earussi1]

When this happened to me my lab told me that it was silver sulfide from the fixer. My understanding is that this usually happens if the lab is trying to save money by not changing their filters regularly or if the chemistry is underused the particles start forming and the lab doesn't catch it in time. You can try rewashing the slides and rinse in photoflow to see if it removes them, though sometimes the stuff is really tenacious. Good luck.

[mike_earussi1]

Excuse me, maybe is was bleach not fixer.

[pics]

I had similar problems with my local lab right before they said screw it and ditched E-6 processing all together. It cost a decent amount of money to keep fresh chemistry in the machine and assure quality processing. If the volume of E-6 processing is low (very likey) they may be cutting corners somewhere. My advice would be to go with A+I mailers if there isn't another lab or better yet get the Kodak E-6 kit if you're feeling a little motivated lol.

[stoem]

I would complain and insist they make it right. I had some 120 slide film processed at my local lab. There machine pulled the emulsion off a few spots on the film. I refused to pay for it till they fixed is. The store sent the slides back to the pro lab and they touched up emulsion. Very decent job. The important thing is that they know there is a problem with their equipment.

[discpad]

I've seen this, too, when in a batch of 10 35mm rolls I had a roll of film that was dodgy: The emulsion flaked off in a few spots, and deposited onto the other film.

 

It could also be caused by crud in the color dev or bleach baths; but, as stated above, it could also be a filter -- If the processor even has one, as some leader card processors don't have them (dip & dunk lines usually do).

 

A big source of crud is when a roll of B&W film is accidentally run: The emulsions aren't designed to handle 100.0F processing, so it peels off, mushes up, and gunks up the chemistry... Yuk! :(

 

Also, as stated above (but I've personally never seen), it *could* be a film structure problem. Obviously, if the problem is across different films (or emulsion batches), then the finger points at the processor.

[mendel_leisk]

There's a pepper grain example here:

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=006Uxf

[terence_mahoney]

Sadly as film use declines steadily we can expect to see processing quality drop for a couple of reasons. One is that rather than do the right thing and shut down their lines, some lab owners will leave chemistry in the machines longer than advised in order to make some profit from what little volume they've left. This may be especially likely if it's fairly new machinery they haven't got their money out of yet. The other reason is that the paradigm shift with digital has traded novelty and instant gratification for quality, so the bar has been lowered in terms of customer expectations and acceptance, and many labs aren't motivated to put forth extra effort to meet the standards of the few remaining film shooters, whom some labs probably consider more of a nuisance than anything else.

[jtk]

E6 labs are in decline, wages are terrible. Obvious dirt comes and goes from my remaining professional E6 lab.

 

The problem's probably dirt rather than "pepper grain," but that's also possible with some scanners (and some applications..less likely with Vuescan).

 

Today a lab tech is impoverished, a few decades ago she/he had a well-rewarded profession. Employers do get what they pay for, despite

everybody's best intentions.

 

When I first managed a 100%-professional-serving E4 lab in 1969, I earned $1500/mo, bought a new Saab and a home...that's over $9.00/hr 35 years ago. I paid a starting tech $5.00/hr. Our clients included the Smithsonian (1975), on the far side of the country, because of our quality.

 

Think about that wage decline when you vote for politicians that encourage big box stores and Asian outsourcing.

[robert goldstein]

The film in question is Astia 100f, which, in my experience, is almost completely grain free when properly processed. Am I wrong on this?

 

Rob

[g._armour_van_horn]

Just remember two things. First, when a vendor has a problem it can be a really good thing, in that you learn how they handle problems which can be more valuable than lucking into a vendor that never makes a mistake - yet. Second, feedback is crucial in a lab. Even if they are running test strips consistently, things like this (which aren't going to show up on the automated read from the densitometer) are going to continue unchanged until the lab knows about them, and only the clients are likely to be in a position to see the problem. They could be running into problems from old chemistry just because their current volume means that "number of rolls" is no longer a good measure for the life of a tank solution.

 

Work with them, at least unless they demonstrate that they don't want to work on the problem.

 

Van

[freehueco]

Here's another one that popped up from a client who visited a cold place. They were getting

spots on the film, but we were only seeing it on their film. The only thing we could come up

with was that perhaps the freeze/thaw action from day to day caused the spots.

 

Otherwise, our E6 business seems to be on a slow ascent. Our business is shifting though,

from local to long-distance. We get a lot more film from out of state these days.

 

And an interesting aside from John's story. When I first became the manager of a one-hour

lab (in 1999); I made $9 per hour. Four years later I could afford to buy a used Geo Metro...