louis1 Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 I have been here for 3 years and it used to be that the top photos were selected by the number of ratings. I have no desire to go back to that but for a change I looked at top photos for the last month and I was amazed to see that out of the first 200 images over 90% of them were nudes based photos. Can I make it clear I have no desire to censor or comment on theses images but I do think that ratings do relate to visibility and interaction on the site. Seeing that the site has changed so dramatically with now 90%+ of top rated images nudes then the overall presentation of images is totally unbalanced compared to a few years ago. Alternatively this site has massively changed and the % of nude images posted has gone up by 1000%+. I know the mantra that goes ratings are for the site. BUT with most ratings now going to NUDES does that mean that that is what the site wants as opposed to promoting the best in photography overall? I only mention this as the change to nudes is so vast and I wonder if some attention should be given to this side effect of the current system. I guess one might better understand the situation if one knew are number of ratings and comments currently being made per image posted the same as 1 2 or 3 years ago? Perhaps others can suggest other measures of the effectiveness of the site. Effectiveness for me is visibility and comments. Thanks Louis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmoody Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 I've noticed it too (why else would I finally become a "paying" member?! :-) (Just kidding)). Don't really see any problem with it for the most part except that now when I try to sell friends/family on the site (and I do) or show them the quality of work that gets shown here, makes me sometimes feel a little like a perv. It's especially noticeable if you do "top photos" and search by "ratings". The only way to really avoid it is by searching the POW's. Not sure how it could be changed, nor if it should be changed (I do comment on some of the nudes, & most are tasteful and artistic so...), but I see what Louis is saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will king Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 I can see Lois's point. Although I appreciate all genres of photography, nudes aren't my favorite, however it does seem to be everybody's elses favorite. But I don't think photo.net is responsible for that. It's the people that post photos and view photos that drive the statistics, and I'm not sure there is a solution to the issue of nudes dominating the TRP, without censorship. I have seen this suggestion before and I will echo it. I think there should be a TRP for each category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben conover Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 I think nudity on photo.net will do alot to combat the useless and degrading porn industry and it's adherants. I like the high level of photography here and I feel that giving people (nudes) the real merit they deserve is very worthwhile. If the photos have an explicit theme, so what, that's cool by me, at least there is merit where it is due, and that can only be good. I prefer people to pebbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will king Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Ben you make a very good point, however, I can't help but to suspect that not all the people who view nudes on this site are doing so for artistic merit. I prefer pebbles to people, but hey that's whats so great about art, there's something for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louis1 Posted January 7, 2006 Author Share Posted January 7, 2006 ... my point was that maybe the number of nudes had not increased just that the current system of rating/TRP was decreasing the visibility of the other genres of photography. I do not wish to debate whether nudes should be here or not. Louis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knicki____ Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 I dont think that PN wants to or is promoting nudity. I have yet to see a banner or notice from Brian or anyone else in the upper echelon stating, Hey, we have nudes come look or nude shooters get free membership. That would be promotion. It doesnt seem nudes are promoted anymore than any of the other genres. I do agree they are popular by the general pn public. Personally, after awhile they can get just as plain and boring as any other generic photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louis1 Posted January 7, 2006 Author Share Posted January 7, 2006 I wasn't suggesting it was an intentioned promotion, if you read the post. louis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobatkins Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 <em> I looked at top photos for the last month and I was amazed to see that out of the first 200 images over 90% of them were nudes based photos. </em> <p> That's why the default TRP views (last 3 days) don't count ratings made from category browsing, because then nudes would dominate. <p> Is it such a shock that a predominantly male audience choses to look at naked women and that they like them so much that they rate them highly? Just what else would you expect to happen? <p> <em> SAN FRANCISCO, California (Reuters) -- Internet users share many common interests, but men are heavier consumers of news, stocks, sports and pornography, while more women look for health and religious guidance, a broad survey of U.S. Web usage has found.</em> <p> It would certainly be interesting to see TRPs generated based on the gender of the viewer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knicki____ Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 not to argue but your subject does state "Does PN want to promote..." I went to the recent trp and nudes didnt dominate the first page (there was 1) but on the last year view they positively dominate. I think with the recent changes to how the trp is selected we will see a change in what makes it there but it's probably going to take a lot more then a few months to see the difference. Although, I cant say that I looked at the trp view for the last month since the changes took affect to see if any difference has happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a. a. Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Between the top two hundred of "Photos from Last 3 Days Ranked by Rate Recent Avg (Updated Sat Jan 07 15:07)" They are 69 images which have human as an important element in them, including sport, fashion, street photography, conceptual, portrait, children, nude etc. ( %34.5) There are 6 images which are nude. (%3) I think if "Nude" category could have been divided to three categories such as glamour nude, fine art nude and erotica could've helped somehow....since whoever is interested in fine art nude would rate more in that category instead of others while typical viewers will head towards glamour and good Erotica shots (as much as sound Erotic!) really don't appeal to many typical viewers since they are mostly dark and conceptual rather than glamorous and typical sexy. This way the votes will be divided in three categories and it might eliminate the over lap which is there right now. Just an idea. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glen_evans1 Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Perhaps what is needed is more bad nudes to balance things out. Sometimes Democracy elects the choice of others. People like nudes, not all people, not all nudes. I believe Mr. Atkins recently noted that those who don't like the concept of nudes are gradually removed from the population by the natural process. If there is someone who can't find art and inspiration in the abundance of nude photos here then the administrators of the site won't be able to help them. G.E. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louis1 Posted January 7, 2006 Author Share Posted January 7, 2006 I don't think you read my post. "Is it such a shock that a predominantly male audience choses to look at naked women and that they like them so much that they rate them highly? Just what else would you expect to happen?" My point was "is it the PN system or the number of nudes that has lead to the 90%+ domination in the 1 month TRP ratings". This is a massive shift over the last 2/3 years. Do you agree that this has happened. The other point was is that domination affecting the visibility etc of other genres. If you want to address these points I would welcome your views. Louis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louis1 Posted January 7, 2006 Author Share Posted January 7, 2006 "not to argue but your subject does state "Does PN want to promote..." ..... Although, I cant say that I looked at the trp view for the last month..." First I am still not saying the promotion is deliberate, can you see the question is rhetorical? Second why enter a discussion when you can't be bothered to look at the TRP 1 month and then try to dismiss it. Third the current PN system has been going for a lot more than 1 month. The results are there to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louis1 Posted January 7, 2006 Author Share Posted January 7, 2006 Why when I try to make a point regarding the 1 month stats do you look at the 3day stats. DOH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louis1 Posted January 7, 2006 Author Share Posted January 7, 2006 The point was not the number of nudes nor their quality but their predominance today versus 2 or 3 years ago. If 10 (non nude images) and 190 nude images are getting 40+ ratings over the last month is that a good change over the last 2/3 years. It seems to me that it is NOT good as the other genres are getting less attention. Unless you say that in the last 2/3 years the quality of the other NON-NUDE images has fallen over the last 2/3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knicki____ Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 just to clarify this a bit more for me. Which monthly trp are you looking at? rate recent avg, sum, comments, views? I just looked at the last month rate recent avg and in the first 9 pages I havent seen a nude yet. I dont think we are viewing the same pages. I also know that the trp changes have been around longer than a month but was making a generalized statement. Obviously we have miscommunicated at least on my part. Knicki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a. a. Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Did you say "DOH!"?! That's really funny! =) How old are you?! The answer is because that's the page which appears automatically and get much more exposure than any other choices. You were concerned about exposure, right?! Then the focus should be on that. I even offered a solution in that regard before: http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00ERDc Now if you also check the top 100 "Photos from Last Month Ranked by Rate Recent Avg (Updated Sat Jan 07 02:48)" you won't find a single nude shot in them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobatkins Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Nudes tend to beget nudes. If a site is "discovered" as a good place to post and find nudes, more people will post and find nudes. I don't think this is a deliberate ploy on the part of photo.net to attract nudes. It's just what happens. There are a lot of pictures of cats too, but not that many people want to look at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louis1 Posted January 7, 2006 Author Share Posted January 7, 2006 So you don't want to discuss the 2 points! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louis1 Posted January 7, 2006 Author Share Posted January 7, 2006 " .....top photos were selected by the number of ratings. I have no desire to go back to that but for a change I looked at top photos for the last month....." Seems clear to me. " .. number of ratings.... last month" just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louis1 Posted January 7, 2006 Author Share Posted January 7, 2006 The original post is about a change in interaction for NON NUDE GENRES over the last 2/3 years using SPECIFIC stats from number of ratings per image. Why you keep referring to other stats is beyond me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly_flanigan1 Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 evolution, lessor sites have died off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a. a. Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Because you are viewing the subject from a rather narrow window. The qty of rating is not necessary a good measurement tool. It used to be, but not anymore. Simply because when a nude shot comes up people who like nude mostly tend to rate it based on the beauty of subject instead of the actual image and people who dislike nude right away drop a 3/3 (or lower in past) so eventually nude shots tend to get many more votes anyway...combination of hate, love and true ratings. A better measurement for your case would be "Views" which has a higher merit since members and non-members contribute to it and tend to be a poll of a bigger crowd. As you'll see nude is still a part of it but it is in a much more moderate manner. I was just trying to show the bigger picture here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louis1 Posted January 7, 2006 Author Share Posted January 7, 2006 Thanks. Maybe you are right. It just concerned me that there was such a huge shift over the years. However is what you are saying not that everyone has stopped rating other genres to the extent that they did in the past and the only ones being rated are nudes. That is my concern that other genres are being sidelined and the people posting are getting less feedback . I have no stats but it had always been my experience that people got more ratings than comments, I doubt if that has changed and if it hasn't then people are getting less feedback which is a bad thing for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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