bobbyc Posted March 28, 2006 Share Posted March 28, 2006 What would happen if the neg was left too long in Photo-Flo ? How long is too long anyway ? BTW what would happen if someone was to ingest it, accidentally of course. Just wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinder Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Once the emulsion is wet it doesnt really absorb much by the time you are rinsing in photoflo it is mostly saturated. It is pretty much detergent so unless you chug the bottle I can't imagine you growing a third arm or dying. MSDS is avalible at www.kodak.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mona_chrome Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 It has been awhile since I studied about this, but I remember something to the effect that photo-flo might be one of the most dangerous chemicals in the darkroom if ingested--I would see if you could find the "Friends of photography" book on the hazards of photography Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinder Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Here is a "<a href="http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:AWZFt_MDf9cJ:www.forensi-tech.com/msds/photoflo.pdf+kodak+photoflo+msds&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1">Link</a>" to the MSDS it has a health Rating of 1 Flame 1 and stabilty of 0. MSDS's are your friend you should review them for every chemical you use. And keep copies for any chemicals you store in bulk or have a high health risk. It is not anymore dangerous than the numerous other chemiclas you use daily. Again dont bath in it, or drink it, use common sense and PPE as required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_waller Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Some sources recommend that the wet time for film should be no more than twenty minutes total. I use the Ilford Method for washing to reduce wet time but even then I exceed the 20 minutes. Having said that I reduce the temperature during the stages of the wash which has the effect of firming up the emulsion somewhat. Wetting agents are detergents so I doubt they are particularly harmful in the concentrations likely to be experienced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_andrews10 Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 As the previous post said "Photo-flo is just a detergent". I realised that about 40 years ago, and have never wasted my money on it since. I just use the cheapest brand of washing-up liquid I can find (preferably pine scented -mmmm!). Haven't noticed any detrimental effect on my negs so far, nor any adverse effects from keeping them in the wash for half an hour or more. I do have one batch of negs that have grown some strange stains, but they were put through someone else's processing line, where no wetting agent was available, and washing was done in a cascade of tanks. I suspect the problem was due to over-used developer and/or contaminated fixer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nano_burger Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 This reminds me of a party I gave once where one person came up to me and asked me what she was drinking. Not knowing, I took a big gulp. Turns out she was drinking my fixer. I used to store all my photo chemicals in well labeled bottles in the refer to extend its useful life. Well, we didn't die and now I keep them in a locked closet due to my 2 year old. It was that odorless fixer and didn't taste too bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Let's keep things in perspective here. You've already ingested a surprising amount of one of the main ingredients in Photo-Flo. And you're probably okay. First of all, Photo-Flo, like most photographic wetting agents I know of, is a surfactant, not a detergent. Basically, a surfactant reduces the surface tension of water. This property makes products like Photo-Flo more effective than plain water for certain purposes, and improves the efficiency of cleaning products. While detergents contain surfactants, they also contain many other ingredients that you don't want on your film, including oils. Second, Photo-Flo is as close to harmless as anything you'll find in a darkroom, other than water. It's mostly water, about 25% propylene glycol, and about 5-10% p-tert-octylphenoxy polyethoxyethyl alcohol. Both are very common. Propylene glycol is even used in medicines and foods, as well as many ordinary cleaning and personal hygiene products. p-tert-octylphenoxy polyethoxyethyl alcohol is an ingredient in cleaning products used by the food industry. Some folks might have a skin reaction to Photo-Flo concentrate. Heck, anything is possible. If you have allergic reactions to certain soaps or detergents, it might happen. I wouldn't drink the concentrate. It would probably make me barf and poop. But if the only thing standing between me and death from dehydration was a gallon of water with a modest amount of Photo-Flo in my darkroom, I'd drink it. I'd damn sure drink it before drinking urine if it came to that. Leaving your negatives too long in a Photo-Flo solution would probably soften the emulsion and make it temporarily vulnerable to scratches. Some of the chemical ingredients might infiltrate the emulsion but I doubt they'd do any harm. BTW, did you know that drinking too much water in a short time can cause death? Yup. The darkroom is a very dangerous place. Wet hands and the sound of running water in the darkroom makes me have to pee. And I squint for a few minutes when I turn the lights on. That can't be good for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_kaplan1 Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 The silver that your skin absorbs from used fixer has anti-bacterial properties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 I've heard the absorbed silver wards off werewolves too. Must work because I've never been bitten by one. Meanwhile those poor saps with their digital cameras are being munched in droves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowland_mowrey Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Those of you who thing photo flo is toxic are wrong. It is, as noted in other posts here, rather harmless. As for those of you using detergents or soaps instead of a photographic final rinse, well - what Lex said! You are leaving the scented oil and other ingredients in your film, and over the long haul these can damage your film. Among other things, the oil can induce tackiness in your film and cause negatives to stick together. Never ever use plain photo flo or a detergent solution for color films. Ron Mowrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted March 29, 2006 Share Posted March 29, 2006 Well, yeh, but do my negatives smell lemony fresh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbyc Posted March 29, 2006 Author Share Posted March 29, 2006 Well, this was a fun posting. I leave my negs in "The Flo" for just a couple of minutes; has worked for my several hundred sheets of 4x5 and hundreds of rolls of film without a hitch; never have had it in for half hour. Half-hour, are you kidding me ?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnance Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Lex, are you saying if I'm using a digital camera I should stay out of droves? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_mullaney Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 "...[silver...werewolves]..." "...[stay out of droves]..." - A photographer's sense of humor really is just one step above that of an accountant, isn't it... :) Its amazing how "stop bath: acid vs. water" and "photo-flo" are two of the most common recurring themes... Maybe because it is just to simple to believe... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
profhlynnjones Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Hi Bobby, I have a slight disagreement with what has been written. Photo Flo and its predecessor from Ansco were and are un-colored and un- perfumed dishwashing detergent. In fact both companies stated that if you were out of their product, use a few drops of liquid detergent. All of the other wetting agents are, in fact surfactants, thats why they were quite a bit more expensive. They are very effective and don't foam nearly as much. Especially with Photo Flo, be sure to rinse the reels and tanks since they have a fairly high Ph and have a photographic effect. It can cause streaking of development. Lynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Paul, for years I've used my film cameras to take nighttime exposures under a full moon. Never had a single problem. Last summer I experimented with my D2H and 300/4.5 AI to photograph a full moon. Werewolves drove in from all over tarnation to harrass me all night. They all had opinions but not one of 'em knew how to expose correctly for a full moon. If there's anything worse than a know-nothing know-it-all, it's a hairy, slobbering know-nothing know-it-all. I think they'd been drinking too much Photo-Flo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discpad Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Lex wrote, "If there's anything worse than a know-nothing know-it-all, it's a hairy, slobbering know-nothing know-it-all." What happened... Did you look in the mirror?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discpad Posted March 30, 2006 Share Posted March 30, 2006 Is Photo Flo related to Aunt Flo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob haight Posted April 13, 2006 Share Posted April 13, 2006 Photoflo is cheap and really works well to remove water spots. A few drops in a litre (1/200) is all you need and leave film in 1 minute. No need to drink it or leave the film in longer for best results. Err on under dilution never over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecarter Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 *Looks in the mirror at his hairy countenance...* Hey, I resemble that remark! Err... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beverly_johnson Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Warning: Observe precautionary information on containers and in Material Safety Data Sheets! Slightly different components are used to achieve the 3 different concentrations of KODAK PHOTO-FLO Solution (200, 600, and 2100). Precautionary information on containers and in MSDS's differ for each PHOTO-FLO product. PHOTO-FLO Solutions are eye irritants. Wear adequate eye protection when mixing and using this product. Avoid contact with clothing or prolonged contact with skin. PHOTO-FLO 600 Solution is harmful or fatal if swallowed. PHOTO-FLO 2100 Solution causes eye burns. For Emergency Health, Safety, and Environmental Information on all Kodak products, call: (716) 722-5151 24 hours a day This is from a pdf file by Kodak: http://www.kodak.com/global/en/health/tiDocs/ti0688.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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