Anyone still or recently experienced the "XTOL Failure"?

[brian steinberger]

I'm looking to try some Xtol with my FP4 and HP5 in both 120 and 4x5 because

I've heard good things about it, except for the failure. I searched the site

here and all the posts I could find were from 2001. And they were all very bad,

with many accounts of failures.

 

Is this something that has been worked out by now? Or is it still a common

occurance. Because I don't care how awesome a developer is, it's not worth

risking losing an important roll or film at any certain point. ID-11 would be a

great second choice with no risk of failure.

 

Any imput is great!

[dave_snay]

I've been using XTOL for the past couple of years with zero failures except for the time I mixed it with some fixer I had previously prepared. Don't ask how that happened. :)

 

Dave

[steven nelson]

No failures here either after using XTOL for years. With the old packaging there were instances where part A would be clumped together because of moisture.

[mitchell_kirschner]

Don't draw any conclusions yet...I bet some very experienced darkroom workers will chime in with notes of caution.

 

Also search the archives on this. There are much more recent threads than 2001, and which go beyond the 1 liter packet size/caking aspect of this issue.

 

Personally, I would love to try XTOL but don't want to gamble with my film.

[brian steinberger]

Mitchell,

 

I agree, and that's why I'm asking this question. If there are no recent reports of problems, then I would try it. But you're right, it's not worth risking. I'll stick with ID-11 for now.

 

Brian

[eric merrill]

I used Xtol exclusively for the last 4 years I developed film. Never had a failure. I did try a bottle I had mixed up and stored for over a year. Slightly less contrast on the negs, but still worked fine. I put working solutions into 250ml bottles, all the way to the top, and used them 1-shot. Either 1 in a liter tank for 1:3 dilution, or 2 for 1:2.

 

That's about 500 rolls of film in Xtol without a single failure. Maybe I was lucky.

 

 

Eric

[the world in black white]

Four years of frequent usage without a single failure has given me

complete confidence in Xtol - as long as it is used during its useful life. It

does oxidize over time, as should be expected.

[db1]

If you research this topic, you see the failure had to do with the 1 liter bags, which are no longer made.

 

Get over it people.

[mitchell_kirschner]

Here's one of the threads that casts doubt in my mind:

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00CQRy&tag=

 

Look at Ronald Moravec's response. Apparently the 5-liter pack can die on the shelf before it's opened - and it has no expiration date. So you're stuck guessing, and there's no way to test the activity level. Maybe Xtol packages come with expiration dates now, I don't know. If it were me, I'd probably be inclined to try Patrick Gainer's PC-TEA or similar vitamin c-based developer, mixed from scratch (e.g. mytol). At least you're more likely to have control over freshness.

[didjiman]

I used 2 5 liter packs of Xtol with no problem, then BANG, failure. The experts still said it's probably a problem with my process somewhere. While that may be true, I have moved on to 777. Highlights to die for...

[christiaan_phleger___honol]

All 5 ltr packs of Xtol are labeled with expiration dates, and the A powder has increased to

be close to equal amount to the B, I think they've balanced the sulfite in equal amounts.

No failure since 1 liter in 97 or 98, and it was minor. I think people blow the failure out of

proportion. Plenty of Pro labs use it replenished for Years at a time.

[bob_the_builder1]

No problems with Xtol here. Just very satisfied with its results.

[rustys pics]

When XTOL first came out, I used the 1 liter packs, and had a bad experience. That kept me away from XTOL for years. But I've been using it over the past year again, and it truly is one of the best film developers out there. It's cheap, easy to mix, clean working and gives your film a speed bump. I still use Rodinal for slow films in the 25-100 ISO range. But XTOL is now my developer of choice for HP-5, Delta 400 and 3200.

 

Any powder developer can be ruined if moisture gets to it before mixing.

[db1]

This is for Richard Man. How long ago did your failure happen? How long and where was the xtol stored?

[eric merrill]

I have thrown out a 5 L pack that didn't seem to be correct. It was too clumpy, for lack of a better explanation. If something doesn't seem right, toss it out. I'm just glad my wife doesn't use the same philosophy. :)

 

Correction to what I wrote earlier: obviously, 500 ml of Xtol in a 1 L tank is 1:1 dilution. I wrote 1:2.

 

 

Eric

[wendell_kelly]

I had good luck for several years with Xtol then recently I had a 5 liter batch decrease greatly in activity over a short period. Tha ended my use of the stuff.

 

I'm using D-76 made up from scratch now and am happy with the results.

[didjiman]

> This is for Richard Man. How long ago did your failure happen? How long and where was the xtol stored?

 

Around May. The mistake I made was to stored Xtol 1+1 instead of stock. I store it in the "accordian" type of bottle. Didn't know storing diluted is a problem and it has been working for 2+ 5 liter set, but then all the sudden, when the 3rd set if ~half gone. BANG. It is very disheartening, I tell ya.

[mark_sampson]

Those accordion-pleated bottles leak air, = oxidized developer.

Brown glass is what you want if you're going to store XTOL. I use the 500ml size and the stock solution has lasted a year in them. It's also wise to use distilled water to mix, and to follow the mixing instructions carefully.

[d_purdy]

I was of the opinion that Kodak stopped using the small paper package and

went to a larger mylar package to solve the problem a few years ago. I have

used XTOL for several years and I process a lot of film... 1500 rolls a year and

have never had a problem.

 

However, that said, there is one sort of peculiar failure of Xtol with FP4. Most

of the film I process is FP4 and it works well in Xtol except if you are using the

extended time method of using your developer to maximum usablility. I mix

10 liters at a time and process 150 rolls in that amount. Using Kodaks

schedule of time extension. It works well except for Ilford FP4. after about 2/

3s of the way through the capacity the FP4 needs far more time extension

than it should. The extended time should be about 11 minutes but I find it

needs to be 15 minutes or more and more doesn't make much difference. It

still prints well. I don't suppose there are very many people who encounter

this "problem".

[j_lr]

Hi Dennis.

 

You seem to have lot of experience about Xtol, could you detail wich is your method to disolve the stuff and how you keep it?

If you process such an amount of film may be Xtol never gets too old anyway.

[d_purdy]

Javier,

I mix the XTOL according to the instructions on the package, only I probably

mix it a bit warmer than they say to. I find the main problem with getting it to

disolve is having a large enough quantity of water to start with. I store my

developer in the same tank I process in. It is a 2 feet tall, 6 inches diameter

acrylic tube I got at Tap Plastics and glued a base to. I fill the tube to 2 inches

from the top and then put a floating lid on it and another lid that covers the

whole top of the tube. I process in darkness and can run 8 rolls of 120 at a

time by putting the rolls on stainless steel reels and putting the reels on a

stainless steel rod that I bent the bottom into a spiral and top into a handle.

I mix a new batch on average about every 6 weeks.

 

When I mix I like to do it the night before I need it so the temperature is cooled

off. I mix it pretty well but I don't worry about the last few flakes of chemicals

still floating around in the fresh developer. I find they disolve when I add the

last of the water, especially after the developer has sat a few minutes.

 

I process so much film because here in Portland Oregon there is no good

professional film processor available. So I process not only my own film but

the film of a handful of working friends. Since I process in total darkness I

have a large tube of all the different chemicals in a line on my sink. That way I

can process a lot of film in a relatively short amount of time and I have a

technique that gives me perfect eveness of tone.. no streaks or bubbles or

anything like that.

[tad doxsee]

I've used XTOL (1:1) exclusivley for about 3 years, mostly for TMAX 100. Perhaps I've been lucky, but I've stored full strength XTOL in an accordian-style plastic bottle and other plastic bottles for up to 6 months without any problems.

[karl_borowski]

Test roll cough cough, cackle cackle, and densito-, cough, cackle, -meter. Seriously, though: run test rolls. Problem solved.