Loading film on Paterson spools

[bernard_frank]

Forgive me if this is a trivial and rather boring subject, but the problem is driving me

crazy.

 

I use Paterson small tanks for both 135 and 120, with the Paterson spools. In at least two

out of three rolls the problem arises: I am loading the film in the changing bag by turning

the flanges alternativerly, as is supposed to be done. I keep my thumbs resting lightly on

the loading slots to control how the film engages. About 3/4 of the way I can feel a

growing resistance until the film jams and the outmost part jumps out of

the track. I have to try and put it back in, or pull out the entire film altogether and start

over.

 

Anybody knows why this happens? Has it happended to you? I use three different spools

and I'm pretty sure it happens with all three of them.

 

Thanks for any insight on this issue.

[patrick_gainer]

Many years ago I had an Ansco tank with a reel like that. If the reel was the least bit damp, the gelatine would act like glue. Heating with a hair drier might help. You can also try loading under water. A litle bit wet is bad, a great lot wet is slippery. I don't use those reels now. I have the center loading reels for my Paterson tank.

[bobmichaels]

I'm clueless as I use Paterson reels for 35mm and 120, loading in a bag, and never have that experience. Some of my reels are reasonably new and pearly white while others are old and stained brown. I don't even wash the photoflo off, just shake them off and let them dry.

 

The only thing I can add is that the reels are dry being in an airconditoned house for at least 24 hours.

 

Oh, I do snip a 45 degree angle on the leading edge of the film. It's very very small, like 1 cm. Maybe that's it.

 

Wish I could tell you why mine works and yours doesn't, but I can't.

[ronald_moravec1]

If you ever got wetting agent on the reels, they got sticky. Bleach will get some off, not all.

 

Trim the leading corners so the film doesn`t get stuck on the radial track supports. This is harder with 120.

[upe_vantonni1]

i've had the problem with my reels. though they are not patersons (i don't think)

 

its usually one of two problems.

 

first, the reels are wet and the film gets sticky and gums up.

 

second (and more usual) is that when you cut the film you opened up one of those spaces on the sides of the film (for the life of me I just can't think of their names, the threading holes maybe) so that what happens is that as the film goes around it keeps catching on the jagged edge.

 

i've found that to solve the problem you can recut it horizontally or you can diagonally cut the sides so that the tip of the leader is slightly narrower than the rest of the film. this will streamline the takeup so that the film goes through the ball bearings and then stays in its divit easier.

 

but definatley smooth out the threading holes and you'll find you'll have far less problems.

[photojim]

Agree about the srockets. Cut between the holes. if you miss, cut the corners off the leading edge of the film.

 

Nikon autofocus SLRs don't require leaders to be cut, so I shoot bulk film with a straight-cut edge already cut between the sprockets. Saves me the bother of dealing with it in the darkroom.

[zenit_zepplin]

had this happen so bad once that the film altually got torn (and the tail end had to be developped separately), I think that at least for my spools it was caused by one of the balls that gotten jammed. Now before loading I always make sure it's nice and loose. Another thing is the direction in which the film is wound in the camera, for example my Zenit winds it emulsion side out, so I load it this way too, it goes in smoother.

[mark_punch]

Hi Bernard.......I've had exactly that problem on and off for years..until I bought a little hairdrier...now I dry the spool for at least a couple of minutes all over it until it's very dry, and I wash my hands and dry them with the drier as well. After taking up this routine, I've had no "sticking" at all.....35 film goes on super smoothly.

I find 120 a completely different story. I've abandoned Patterson reels for 120 as I have always had problems , even with super dry reels.

I recently got some Samigon auto-load reels (from B&H) that work in Patterson tanks. They're great cause they have much wider flanges to guide the thinner 120 film onto the reel. I would suggest you try these for 120.....they really take the pain away for me.

...regards , Mark

[chris_waller]

I suspect your are experiencing the effects of reverse curl on the film. What type of camera do you use? Which way does it wind the film round the take-up spool? That is, does it wind the film in the same way that it is wound in the cassette, with the emulsion on the inside? Or, does it wind it so that the emulsion is on the out side? If this latter then you are getting reverse curl on the film and it will be difficult to load. The answer is to rewind the film into the casette and leave it for 24 hours to regain its original curl before trying to load it into the reel.

 

I've used Paterson reels for twenty years. As noted above, make sure the reels are dry before loading. Also, I never scrub the reels to clean them. This will roughen the surface of the plastic and make it more inclined to pick up gelatin. After use I just rinse the reels in water and leave them to dry.

[chris_waller]

P.S. - forgot to include my diagram about trimming the leading end of the film to ease loading.<div></div>

[frank.schifano]

My plastic reels are virtual clones of the Paterson variety and I've had problems similar to yours in the past. Yes, if there is the least amount of moisture present, the film will stick. If you use a changing bag in warm weather, the perspiration on your hands can be enough to gum up the works. If your camera winds the film on emulsion side out leaving the film with a reverse curl, that will contribute to the problem as well. I've heard all the warnings about PhotoFlo and plastic reels and how it can leave a residue on them. Honestly, I don't know if that is true. If you rinse off the reels before they dry, I can't imagine there being any left on the reel to cause a problem. All the other chemistry is water soluble and washes off completely. What makes PhotoFlo any different? It is really nothing more than a detergent. Still, I always remove the film from the reel before dunking it into the wetting agent. No sense taking a chance on causing a problem for no gain. Dry is good. Wet is bad. If you still have problems, switch to SS tanks and reels.

[steve_lebel]

I recently switched to PanF+ film (36 exp). Prior to this, I was using Plus-X (24 exp.) I have also experienced your problem, but only when working with the PanF+. I tried and tried to figure this out, and my observations worth noting are as follows:

1. When I have about 7"-9" of film remaining to load onto the Patterson reel, the problem you described occurs.

2. When I take a brand new roll of film that has never been wound onto a camera, and practice loading with it, I never have a problem.

 

Based on some of the feedback from the other members, my problem may very well be related to the method the camera uses to wind the film. I have a Leica M6 and most likely, its winding technique is placing this reverse curl in my film. I'm going to try loading it the same way it's taken up on the film carrier, and see if this overcomes my problem. I'll also try allowing the film to rest for a couple days. Again, when I used a brand new roll of film for practicing loading, I never have a problem. So it seems the reverse curl is a factor.

[old school]

I have had this problem with one or two reels (I think the ones I have bought new, as they are tighter and have less give). The causes have always been, either the ball bearing gets stuck, or the sides of the reel arent perfectly parallel. To correct the ball bearing problem, I spent a good 10-15 minutes just pushing the ball bearing into its recess (enough to enlarge it very slightly but not enough to break or deform the reel. I also made sure that the slope, where the ball bearing is to roll up and jam against film and reel to stop the film moving back the other way, was smooth. I did this very carefully with a sharp scapel knive by shaving off a very very fine amount on a little hump that meant the slope wasn't smooth. This seems to have worked well. On the other reel, as it is new, it is nice and tight and all fits together well, but is just slightly out of line (looking at the reel face-on so it looks like an 'H', the vertical spirals/sides aren't quite parallel). Again a little manipulation, just playing with the reel to build in a little more give seems to have worked well, and also when ever the film jams or gets really resistant to moving any further (both 35mm and 120) I find pulling or rather applying outward pressure to pull the spirals so the H is as wide as any give in the reel will allow, eases the problem and I can continue reeling the film on. I hope this helps.

[james_b3]

as a beginner learning from an experienced friend i find the plastic reels easier, but not in a changing bag. in the bag i sweat like a pig and things get sticky from there. in a cool darkroom they're a snap. i make sure the ball bearings are moving freely and work well even with 120.

[knut_braaten]

Your problem sounds all too familiar... I have both a Paterson reel (an old one - at least 25 years) and a new no-name clone, and the problem occurs on both of them when loading 35mm film. The 'open sprocket holes' mentioned in several of the provious answers might have caused problems, but even when I have taken care not to cut through any holes the problem occurs. I also use a changing bag,and so far I find the moisture theory most likely. I'll try loading in a darkromm next time to avoid the increased moisture which I'm sure will take place in a changing bag.

 

The strange thing is that I have no problem whatsoever with 120 film - even when I tape together two films (to twice the length). My impression has been that 35mm was considered easy and 120 diffucult, but for me it's the other way round.

[henning_klas_n]

Some people remove the balls on the spool. I have an older spool that messes up every

now and then with 135-36 films, I'm considering doing that with it. I think that this is

what often happens:

 

As more film winds up on the spool friction increases. When friction increases, the balls on

the spool are jammed harder into the wedges, thus increasing the risk of getting stuck in

the wedge. Eventually one ball gets stuck, and also causes the other ball to stick, and the

film is jammed.

 

If the balls on the spool are removed, one can use the thumb to apply a little pressure of

the film and twist the spool in one direction, then release the thumb and twist back, i.e.

the same movement as usual. This way you have a little more control. Make sure you have

clean hands or latex gloves on.

 

Maybe this helps...

 

*h