My first large format camera - Arca Swiss Discovery?

[jonee]

This subject continues from the previous question I posted 2 days

ago. Thanks for the responses. I have been looking into the Arca

Swiss that most people recommend. The Discovery Kit is something

neat but i can't seem to find much information on it. Some people

say that WITH A MONORAIL EXTENSION its a very great kit for close

up portraits and landscapes. Any comments?

 

Also, what is a Fresnel? And is this camera compatible with the

usual accessories - Rotating back, Schneider lenses? Thanks.

[davidroossien]

"The Discovery Kit is something neat but i can't seem to find much information on it."

 

This is one negative. It also takes a long time to get accessories. Unfortunately, such is life for such a low volume product. You can find good information here:

 

http://precisioncameraworks.com/Pages/arca_core.html

 

Bob at PCW is a very helpful person!

 

Another negative--accessories are very expensive.

 

If you want to do closeups with a long lens, then you will need a longer rail than comes standard with the Discovery. Personally, I do closeups (.75X life size) with a 150mm lens and the standard rail works fine.

 

A Fresnel brightens the edges of the ground glass.

 

Yes, good for all lenses. Watch out for short lenses--you want a bag bellows. For long lenses--a long bellows. $$

 

Yes, rotating back.

 

This is a great camera, especially for someone who wants a precision tool. If you make a mistake, then it is really hard to blame it on the camera. It's very easy to use.....for a large format camera :o)

[ellis_vener_photography]

If you are going to use a lens longer than 210mm for portraits you'll need a monorail extension and longer bracket, but I wouldn't say it is a necessity.

 

A fresnel lens is part of the ground-glass assembly on the Arca-Swiss cameras. It makes for brighter viewing. That s good for seeing into the corners of the frame and makes the camera easier to focus. Some manufacturer's make you pay extra for this and some don't.

 

Rotating back. The standard back on the Arca-Swiss camera doesn't rotate. You pop out the groundglass assembly and the frame it is attached to and turn it ninety degrees . This takes maybe 30 seconds with the A-S cameras if you are slow or haven't done it twice.

 

The usual accessories are a Polaroid 545 back , film holders, Fuji Quickload holder (and /or Kodak Readyload III holder) and a focusing loupe and a darkcloth. All of these work fine on the A-S cameras.

 

An unusual, cheap and terrific accessory is the Rodenstock Depth of Field /Tilt Angle Calculator. Costs about $35.00 and slips into the a front shirt pocket. This is very accurate and takes the guesswork out of figuring what f/stop to use or how much tilt is needed.

 

Another accessory some people (including me) like is a 6x9cm or 6x7cm roll film holder.

This lets you use medium format roll film with your 4x5 camera. With a 6x9cm back you effectively gain 50% more focal length from a lens --so a 210mm gives you the angle of view you'd get if you used the 4x5 format with a 300mm lens. Roll film is cheaper per sheet and per shoot is far lighter and easier to carry than the same amount of 4x5 frames. On a roll of 120 film in a 6x9 holder you get 8 frames. Compare that to the bulk and expense of 8 sheets of 4x5 film and 4 traditional double sided sheet film holders. The compromise you make with this approach is you are using a format of 2.25 x 3.25 inches as opposed to 4x5 inches.

 

Lenses: as long as the lens has an image circle that covers the format you are working with (about 150mm) + some, you can use any lens you like. I recommend that you get seperate lens boards and cable releases for each lens you own. The standard kit of view camera lenses are 90mm ( roughly the same angle of coverage on the long side of the format as 28mm on a 35mm (24x36mm format) film camera, a 150mm (roughly the equivalent angle of view of a 50mm on a Nikon, canon. etc.) and a 210mm. When I started I only had two lenses for a long time: a 90mm and a 180mm. Unless you really are on a tight budget I recommend getting fast lenses f/4.5 or 5.6 over slower lenses. I prefer Rodenstocks over Schneider lenses but that is a personal preference. I started with a 90mm f/4.5 Caltar II (I still own this lens. It is really a Rodenstock 90mm f/4.5 Grandagon and is superb) and a Rodenstock 180mm f/5.6 Sironar (this lens was stolen and replaced with a 150mm f/5.6 Nikkor W and a 210mm f/5.6 Nikkor W).

[mark_carstens1]

After thoroughly researching the purchase, I decided to buy the Discovery. I moved from a 645 to a 4x5 and couldnﾒt be happier. In addition to being relatively light (~6.5 lbs), it is precisely manufactured, very solid on the tripod, and as monorails go, very compact to venture into the field with. I've packed the Discovery, four lenses and other accessories in a Lowepro Photo Trekker with ease. If I had it to do all over again, I would make the same 4x5 purchase.

 

Adding accessories can be financially draining, unless you can find them used. Since I made the purchase three years ago, I have incrementally ﾓaccessorizedﾔ my system to the point where I can shoot 110mm to 450mm with room on either end. It required adding an extension bracket, and additional rail and both the wide angle (bag bellows) and long bellows, but it's been worth every penny as it is a dream to use. In addition, to the bellows, I have the Lensboard Reduction Adapter so that I can use the much smaller 110mm lens boards (compared to those monster 171mm boards). I very much enjoy using this system. It's one sweet setup that I will be reluctantly exchanging soon for an 8x10. My financial advisor (aka, my wife) says there will be no gain if there is no pain (thanks, honey).

 

The website referenced in an earlier post is very informative. If you'd like more detailed information than a post can encompass or in addition to what's already been provided in this thread, please contact me via this site's email function.

 

Good luck with your decision!

[mlfly1]

I've looked at the Arca Swiss off and on and I'm really in the market for one - I can get what I need out of my current camera. But, I'm curious because the only reason I didn't seriously consider it was having to change bellows as I use a 110 and a 300 about equally. I pictured swapping bellows all the time. Any comments on this? Is it much easier than I imagine?

 

Mike

[michael_briggs2]

Most of the recommendations for Arca-Swiss cameras in response to your previous question (http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00FgdB) were specifically for an F-series camera. Maybe an Arca-Swiss expert can inform us of the differences between the less costly Discovery and an F-series.

 

A Fresnel is a thin lens, generally made out of plastic, that you can add to the ground glass foucusing screen. It is made flat by slicing a thick lens and throwing away portions -- it is hard to describe without a diagram. It redirects light rays from the corners of the ground glass to the center, making the ground glass view more uniform. But the "slicing" process introduces lines which show up when you use a loupe. Some people like them, others don't. You can add one to almost any camera. If you are retrofitting one, add it to the photographer's side of the ground glass so as not to change the accuracy of the focus.

 

The specifications page at B&H says that the extension with the optional rail extension is 38 cm. This should work well for portaits. With a 300 mm lens you should be able to focus to about 1.5 meters; with a 250 mm lens to 0.7 meters.

 

Field cameras generally have a two-position back rather than a back that can rotate to any arbitary angle. Generally it is thought that the weight of this feature isn't worth the minor convenience.

 

As I explained in an answer to my previous post, you can use your LF lenses on whatever camera you can buy. (There are some rare exceptions of very large lenses, etc.) If later you decide to buy a different LF camera, you don't have to buy a different set of lenses -- you can just move them to new lensboards. The interface is between lens and cameras is the lensboard. The interface between the lens and the lensboard is the hole that fits the back of the shutter. You just need to buy a lensboard with the correct size hole for the shutter of you lens.

[mark_carstens1]

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but hoepfully not enough to have it sawed off behind me.

 

I have used the standard bellows for both the 110mm and 300mm, but in my experience (YMMV), you can get by with this setup provided your working distance isn't nearer than about six feet. Inside that distance with the 300 (assuming you have the extra focusing rail capacity) and the bellows begins to groan or, conversely, you may have your movements for the 110 limited by the bellows. In short, depending on your subject distance, and camera movement requirements, you may be fine.

 

Changing bellows is no big deal, but may be frustrating if you're trying to setup quickly. It's not that it's hard, but this is precision gear manufactured to close tolerances. You can't force it into position, but need to take the time to make sure it's seated properly. Suffice it to say, it's a bigger deal describing it here than it is to replace one set of bellows with another.

 

Hope that lends some perspective. Those so inclined may begin sawing now. ;-)

[michael_briggs2]

My calculations about focusing distances were based upon the extension specs. If the bellows isn't long enough to actually use this rail extension than then calculations aren't pertinant; my opinion would be that the spec is misleading.

[nbg90455]

The Arca Swiss cameras are just about the best for most uses, especially if you want something lightweight and super precise. They don't have a website or other general information online, but you could just talk to one of the vendors that sell Arca Swiss cameras here in the US. My suggestion would be Rod Klukas at Photomark in Phoenix, AZ. The number is 602-244-1133 -- he knows just about everything there is to know about them...

Cheers,

Mike

[ray_locke]

Jonathan-

 

I have an Arca-Swiss Discovery,purchased it last summer after using a Tecnica III field camera and finding it less than what I was wanting. I found field cameras were difficult to use with grad filters and wide angles like a 75mm(bed gets in way of both). So after alot of research I bought the Discovery sight unseen.

 

Wow, I really like it. It is very stable, easy to set up, very bright screen-even with the 75mm, it is everything I was hoping for.

 

With the standard rail (30cm) you have maybe 240cm of usable rail and that is with a little overhang. You can reverse the front standard (since it is modular this takes 1 minute) and get another 20cm. But I think a 210 is the practical limit, but you can just squeeze a 240 at infinity.

 

I was using the standard bellows with a 75mm lens and 135mm lenses. With the 75mm you have full back tilt, about 5 degrees of swing, about zero rise (maybe 10mm) and about the same shift. I have added the leather wide angle bellows and it gives all the movement and then some a Nikon 75mm will do (about 200mm image circle). It also covers the whole rail so it could be used with a 210 easily.

 

The standard bellows will do a 300mm easy (but you need the 25cm rail extension). Ken Lee says ( posted pics at lfinfo page) of just being able to do a 450 Fuji at infinity with the standard bellows. so you can use just the standard bellows with a 110 and 300, you just will not have full rise, but about every other movement.

 

The agony of Arca is it can be difficult to get accessories. I am trying to get the 171 to 110 lensboard adapter. Ordered in January and still waiting.......

 

Gripe number two, no backpack really fits it right. I bought a Super Trekker II and I do not like the fit. Camera is wider than the pack and it bulges. I am afraid the leather wide angle bellows (which sticks out just beyond the frame) will rub and wear prematurely. I could disasemble it, but do not want to for in the field use. I have the Discovery case, which is very nice and I store the camera in it while in town, but find a shoulder bag uncomfortable for a hike. Considering digging out my old Kelty external frame backpack (as in backpacking backpack)and using it.

 

I would love to hear suggestions about the bellows and a better packing option.

 

You cannot go wrong with the Arca, although you probably cannot go wrong with a Tachihara either. Knowing what you like does help.

 

Good luck!!!

[mark_carstens1]

<i>Gripe number two, no backpack really fits it right. </i>

 

 

<p>That use to bug me too, then I bought a 15cm rail and have the camera attached to this while in the pack. Being that my Photo Trekker is about 6 inches deep, I am able to pack the camera with lens board adapter facing me, and the ground glass protector to the bottom of the pack. In the field, it's a simple matter of sliding the 30cm rail a bit forward on the 30cm bracket, sliding on the shorter rail with the camera in behind it, and either locking them both down to the bracket or making a transfer to the longer rail, and sliding the shorter rail off. It's a snap, actually more like a slide, but you get the idea.

 

This isn't an original idea. In fact, I think I may have found it somewhere in the photo.net or LFPF archives a good two years ago. I can't be sure where, though. I didn't bookmark the page.

 

Hope that helps!</p>