Ability to [ DISAPPROVE ] ?

[mbb]

One of the best decision made by Brian lately. Why many people cannot comprehend very simply fact that some photographers do not upload photos for critique (and have no interest to hear one especially from not qualified self promoted experts). And yes, if one ask for critique then one is wide opening doors for all - good or bad commentators.

 

It will cut on time some people spending here writing nonsense critiques and in fact trying to show how smart they are (or better said: they think they are smart and experts). Those experts maybe will get life now, start to take some photos and not spend so much time in the front of comp.

 

Big thanks Brian, now $25 is becoming a bargain - well , much too expensive for those who was able for free to write worthless essays : )

[jnicholson]

Yep, given Brian's description I don't see this as such a horrible change. I can't see myself using it but, for some, it'll be nice to be able to remove some of those comments from people who insist on including as part of their comment a picture of themselves or some silly little graphic.

 

I still think a more useful change would be to allow people to opt out of being on someone's interesting persons list.

[marshall]

Marc - You're making a point worth making, but it's an overreaction to say that this kills critique. The people who will delete any negative comment that comes their way are people who won't be learning from them anyway, and I'd like to think that we offer our critiques to help photographers improve. At any rate, spending your efforts on people who are interested to hear what you have to say may be more rewarding.

 

It is frustrating to see brittle people who neither understand nor can take criticism get visibility and even be admired by others. But the bottom line is that it's going to happen anyway. Brian's efforts to offer better visibility through the TRP to a wider range of photographers and some other work is an important step to limit the dominance a small group can exert over views. Photography is a big art with room for all kinds, and hopefully photo.net can be the same, even if it can't be that without some conflicts.

[cseigneurgens]

My English is too poor, then I can not take an active part in discussions on the forum, but today it is important, then I will try to explain my point of view on this question.

 

I am completely against the censure, except in precise cases: the unjust ones (without reason), insults, lack of respect to the photographer or his work, free spite. This type of censure, it is the work of the Big Boss of photo.net and they do it very well.

 

All, we are here to progress. And they are not by veiling the face that we will learn.

 

In general, the most severe comments, are the most constructive, if we take time to read them and understand them.

 

This is why we should not be able to remove them.

 

If we can not accept a comment, we can go away.

 

A last reason of my disagree : many people take time to write comments and it is to lack respect to be able to remove them without a discussion with them.

 

 

Then I say like Yann: I SAY NO.

[joe604]

In an ideal cyberworld, all critiques would be honest and everyone would be philosophical about the criticism they receive. But in reality, most of the negative comments on portfolios and presentations are spiteful or off topic, and I suspect that the large majority of comment deletions that will now occur will be justifiable. I support Brian's plans.

 

Even the proposal to let the members moderate the comments on their photos (if no critique has been requested) will do more good than harm for the community. I also support the option to block all ratings on images where no critique has been requested.

 

There are hundreds of requests for critique everyday -- that is where your critical wisdom should be bestowed. --Joe

[laurie_m]

I'm a bit confused. If a photo isn't submitted for critique, can it still get ratings and therefore end up on some of the TRP views? It's been a while since I've had a look.

 

If that's the case, it doesn't make sense that the photographer can delete comments posted by others. Once on any view of the TRP, it should be open for comment and the comments, even if critical should stand. On the other hand, if the photo can't get any rates at all unless submitted for critique, then it makes perfect sense.

 

That should satisfy the members who simply want to use the site to display images but aren't interested in learning, feedback, or TRP glory.

[laurie_m]

Well, I just answered part of my own question. I just had a look at the "Average" view of the TRP. The current top photo has 13 ratings with an average just barely under 7 and was never submitted for critique.

 

I guess if I had something critical to say about that photo and posted a critique, the photographer could simply delete my comment.

 

Note: I'm using this only as an example and should not be confused as a comment regarding the merit of that specific photo.

[alexguerra]

It's funny, since some days now I've been thinking and getting more bothered with the growing number of the so called "mate-raters" on photo.net and now this measure was taken? I?ve always noticed the existence of this "sub-communities" and after reading a thread on which Marc G. points out a very good example of this kind of behavior I had a big reality call. I realized that many of this people react in very bad terms when they get any kind of real critique that don?t praise high how excellent their photos are. In this case, it ended up with Marc G. removing his photos and promising not to comment more, which is a pity since his comments were probably the most useful ones around for people with a real interest on LEARNING something.

 

My suggestion is, since the ratings average appears so highlighted in the personal page, why not to segregate in that same page the received and given ratings, like already happens with the individual photo ratings breakdown (anonymous and direct ones)? Like this it would be clear who gets honest marks for their work and who uses the site mainly for mate-rating, thus the ratings would become a real means of assessing the quality of a photographer just by looking at its public page. The way average ratings of a photographer are displayed now, mean absolutely nothing and are a mere vanity show-off factor for people who just comment photos having in mind the good ratings and comments they will receive back, thus containing no useful critique what so ever.

 

This new ?upgrade? feature of deleting comments, will only reduce the number of comments and most important, the number of USEFUL comments. You may say that people have the right to use the site however they want and that?s correct, but I certainly prefer being in a website where I can learn how to become a better photographer than one where most of the people are only interested on rubbing each other?s egos.

[joe604]

No, the recent change applies to comments on portfolios. Brian's comments above explain what has changed and what might change in the future.

[laurie_m]

Brian stated; "My plan is that people will be able to disapprove comments on (a) their portfolios (b) their photos, except those which have been submitted for critique; and © their presentations."

 

If I interpret that literally, members will be able to delete comments on photos (see b above)that have been uploaded but have not been placed in the queue for critique. As it stands now, those photos, not submitted in the queue for critique can still be rated and displayed in the "Average" view of the TRP. However, after Brian's plan is implemented, comments on those photos can be deleted at the photographer's discretion. While I don't follow that or any other TRP anymore, it seems it simply smoothes the way even more for mate raters. They get the benefit of friendly rates without running the gauntlet of the Rate recent queue. Now, they'll also be able to remove any comments that don't please them. I'm not suggesting the will, just that they can.

 

I suppose, to me, it would make more sense to simply prevent photos from being on any TRP view unless it has gone through the queue and is subject to comment for better or worse. Brian mentioned in an earlier thread that he was considering this. Perhaps it's part of this new plan.

[root]

If anyone has deleted any portfolio comments, I would like to see what their comments section looks like . . . .

[jhenry]

An excellent move Brian. I think the people who find it bad didnt get that first THIS REMAINS AN OPTION and second THIS OPTION DOES NOT CONCERN the Photo that were submitted for critique.<p> Still, if some people want to critic where they are not invited to, they can still proceed but, at least, the photographer has a little tool to protect his original will (especially if he/she is a subscribing member!). Other site have taken more drastic step, such has authorizing members to block other member from any input to your own portfolio (ex: PhotoPoint); in comparizon your decision seems far more balanced in addressing the issue<p> On the other hand, I see here people who strongly pronounced themselves against this option and who, for some obscur ego reason, systematically and regularly erase their pictures on which THEY requested critics and on which many members spent time to place an input and who are still allowed by too nice Admin to keep continuing spitting in the soup they keep drinking without even paying. That is a far more disrespectful attitude towards the site and the members.<p> Well talking about the <b>next step</b>, Laurie made quite a valid pointIMO:<br> why a photographer which does request rating/critics is still entitle to receive rating? <br>and therefore to enter the gallery with a undeniable advantage to the other who when throughout the rate request 'tough' process? which is not fair IMO and which pollute the whole system.

[mottershead]

I'm planning to disable rating on all photos that have not been submitted for Critique. This means that all photos will have to go through the RR queue, if the photographer wants them to be rated. I announced that this was my intent several months ago, and I will get to it before too long.

 

In fact, at some point, once the number of Rate Recent queue ratings goes up a bit more, I am planning to turn off rating of photos other than in the RR and Rate Category queues. This will mean that anonymous Rate Recent or Rate Category ratings will be the only ratings.

 

When I do that, I will probably still provide some way for people to select a photo as a "favorite", and perhaps there will be a TRP display based on which photos have been selected by the most people as favorites.

 

There will be a separate system of "favorite selections", which won't be anonymous, and if these are not too plagued by "mateyness", then something will be done with this data to present popular photos in a TRP-type display.

[jhenry]

well Brian, when you will start the process on the rated pics, do you plan to go backward in the gallery in order to eliminate ALL photos which were posted in the past and appeared there without request? or will it be a 'from now on' process?

[laurie_m]

Thanks for clearing that up Brian.

[yongbo]

Hi Jacques, I guess the cut over time should be when he introduced the RR.

[mbb]

........I'm planning to disable rating on all photos that have not been submitted for Critique. This means that all photos will have to go through the RR queue, if the photographer wants them to be rated.......

 

 

Another excellent decision.

 

And I should add that I do not have problems with ratings. Have no visits from 'bots' etc. I joined this site 3.5 years ago and became the paying member from the first day I signed on. I also never ever sent any email to abuse@photo.net or asked to remove 1/1 ratings.

 

This site has much more valuable feature to me than ratings. Numbers of views. But those can be heavily polluted when photos is placed in TPR. It is more interesting to see what photo will get thousands of views without being exposed for view in TPR where can be see by many who do not care about it and where viewing the page counts as a view.

[john_stark]

Oh goody...another thing ALMOST as bad as the mystery raters. Things keep getting better for the "bad" people and worse for the good :(

[yann_r.]

It seems obvious that members who will use their disapprove right will ALSO delete submitted for critique photos where others will have left not nice comments.<p>

When you have the choice, you always choose the better one !

[yann_r.]

Not sure about my english... But I think I can be understood, feel free to ask if I'm not.

[Ray House]

I invite negative comments! I want to know what you don't like about my photos, I learn from it. Also, I would never delete a negative comment and will just ignore that option. So...please critique me!

[jhenry]

"... members who will use their disapprove right will ALSO delete submitted for critique photos where others will have left not nice comments." Yann R<p> Yann, I don't see your point here; members had always the possibility to delete submitted photo whenever they want (except POW). <br>Disapprove option will SOLELY apply to photo which are NOT submitted for critic/ratings.

[orensztajn]

My cussin wrote a message in my portfolio just to take contact with me, he found my name through google and end up in my portfolio.

He put his email adress etc, but never log in into PN again.

I asked to delete that message but nothing, so now I click on dissaprove and took away that message.

 

I wanna to say that it is Ok if you can do this kind of things, the function and freedon is there and you can use it if you want.

I would never dissaprove a constructive critique.

[yann_r.]

This new rule just doesn't look serious for me.<br>

Seems to be a step more towards an asepticized website...<p>

I don't feel able at all to delete - PN writes "disapprove" - any comment on my work. And the few shots I've deleted - less than 4 or 5 I think - were cause a new organisation of my portfolio.<br>

A portfolio is made to share/show photos, not a catalog of up than 6 ratings and pleasant litterature.<br>

Of course I'm not a suscriber, then maybe I don't see some hidden parts of this website. And I'm not interested at all by beeing well placed in top photos, whatever they are.<p>

Yes, I agree, sometimes comments are really unpleasant. And then? Are not some admins and moderators here? I thought that's was enough.

[yann_r.]

In your case, disapproving was useful. But I think admins could have done this for you. Confidence problem? May be. A pity.