using calls to attract wildlife

[ilkka_nissila]

Mark, but we should be paying attention to the big effects of man on nature, instead of the small. Many people think of themselves as friends of animals, they're aware of the direct effects of man on animals but completely ignore the indirect effects. Using carbon-based energy sources and burning rainforests, that is how this planet's wildlife is destroyed, not by a few photographers making calls to interact with wildlife. There is like a scale of 1000000:1 difference in the effects on this planet, or that is my entirely uneducated guess.

 

You can help save this planet by realizing that there can be clean sources of energy, cars that spill out water instead of pollution, but some government spending is necessary to get there. Incredibly, the USA gives zero money to fusion energy research but insists that they must be allowed to use the results of this research funded by other countries. Instead, they spend their money (including money reserved for health research (NIH)) on war in order to obtain cheap sources of oil to further pollute the atmosphere. This is what people need to understand, instead of thinking how cute the critter is and how they will not harm it because they don't approach it or make calls to it. They will harm it, just driving to the site.

 

Let's make some pics of melted ice in Canada, burned rainforest in Brazil, and publish as many pictures as possible of the "scenics" visible from New Jersey Turnpike on either side of the road. Not pictures which don't show the "hand of man". Otherwise people will think that such untouched nature exists (those pretty pictures show it does, after all) and will do just fine if we carry out as if nothing was ill.

[ilkka_nissila]

I also think that some habituation between man and other animals is necessary for mutual well-being. How do people learn how animals live, and how to live with them without causing any harm if they're not allowed to interact with them at all?

[mbb]

First Kent - Yes, I can see were you are coming from and yes, I do not like fanatics on either side. The problem is with general mass. They do not know were to stop and easily excuse themselves for everything they do. Starting with excuse for little things will lead to do some worse things. Just as an example I met 'nature photographers' (well, that's how they call themselves) which fully justified they behavior like throwing rocks at lake or close approaching wintering geese to get them fly and try to get a snap. None of these snaps ever were shown in NG or NB and even if one was I cannot approve the way it was taken. Deer and some ducks around here are almost like farm animals. Many hunting organizations help to overpopulating them to have a reason and excuse for hunting. Because it is only few species and some others get help on the way, even I do not like the idea, I do not take sides. As for calling them; if one can not get close to those common animals without calls it is better for one starts to take landscapes, macros etc. Or start to study and then try again.

 

Ilkka, individual person has very limited power to change governments and/or big corporations. Sure they should unite with others and try. But first individual HAS TO START WITH HIMSELF to see small wrong things and correct them as this is in his/her power. And here the question was asked by individual to judge individual behavior.

[bill_bayless]

I was photographing snow geese at Desoto Bend National Wildlife Refuge when a ranger told me I was harrassing the geese. I mentioned that hunting the geese was permitted and that seemed a little more extreme than photography.

 

I suppose a number of forum members would support bird banding and never give a thought to the number of birds killed by banding each year. I haven't killed any with my camera.

 

I feed the birds and occasionally photograph them near my feeders, I have used a screech owl tape to call song birds and screech owls, and photographed herons begging for treats from fishermen in Florida. They were all wild birds and I don't think any of them were harmed. I consider myself ethical and sleep well at night. If you want to use a call, go ahead, Johnny Stewart make some great ones.<div></div>

[jimstrutz]

Personally I think calls might be unethical for a photographer 'cause that's a purist's sport, but they're just fine if you're going to kill and eat the critters. Works great too.

[mbb]

Bill what is a purpose for the shot you uploaded in connection to this thread? I can see that you advertise yourself as a pro. Presented snap is a perfect example for what I was trying to say before. The bird itself appears sharp and can be an acceptable documentary shot if somebody needs it. And if it was not get by calling. Of course I assume it was not heavily cropped for low resolution web use (format shows cropping). Beside that background is unpleasant, blown on right side, pose is a typical bird on the stick in dead center but without interesting composition and is not aesthetically satisfying. It is not showing anything new or interesting as behavior of this species but rather adds to collection of millions alike taken every day around the glob. Again this not personal attack as I am getting to accept reality that majority people thinks that they taking great shots every time they use a camera. Unfortunately I am very happy if I can get one great shot a month....and I am spending about 30+ hours a week on average photographing in the field. And yes most my photos are documentary as I am as much interested in photography as in study biology of selected species. Snapshots can have a great value as proofs for behavior analysis so please do not think I undervalue them.

[kelly_flanigan1]

Then there are those deer whisles folks place on their cars and trucks; to try to repel deer. In some places; wild hog and deer are a major accident hazard when driving in rural areas. The deer tend to fly up and go thru the windshield sometimes; and can kill you. A giant hog often totals a truck or car. The anti hunting groups have caused some areas to be stressed due to overpopulation of deer; vastly more than when settlers came. We had a deer go thru the passenger windshield once; and had guts everywhere. Now we use whisles; not sure if they really work; but have not had one hit the car in over a decade. Before that we hit 3 in the prior decade. I suppose the whisle stresses the deer less than a truck at 75mph?

[bill_thorlin]

Before one considers the ethics it might be wise to consider the wisdom of using calls.

 

If the creature is able to cause harm it would be pretty unwise to use calls to atract it and this practice may also cause the creature to become aggressive towards humans in general.

 

If the creature is lower down the food chain you may be exposing it to risk by upsetting the normal behaviour pattern.

 

As for the ethics - it is impossible to say that in every instance using calls is wrong but I would say that you should think very, very carefully before indulging in this. If pushed I would guess at about 1,000 to 1 against.

 

Ilkka - remember "big oaks from little acorns grow"

[dave_coleman]

1. No

2. Yes

[chelsea]

It all boils down to the point made several times over the years in these threads: LEARN about the animals/plants first. In a purist sense, yes, calling is unethical. What we can argue here ad nauseum is to what degree calls or baiting or hiding in a blind can be used. Just use your common sense so as not to harrass the critters. Personally I very rarely use anything to "attract" them, I'm fortunate enough to live in rural Ontario in the middle of the woods by a lake a mile from the nearest neighbour. Just wish I had more time to wait in places where I know where the critters are. But I don't see anything wrong with leaving out a snack (once! not repeatedly) in the path of a raccoon or fox, or giving a little squeak to get them to pause for a second. As for blinds: they're not the innocent non-disturbing thing that you think they are. If you've set one up for an all day session, or left it there to use repeatedly, have no doubt that some animals smell you and KNOW you're there. You've just set up an obstacle in their pathway.

[bill_bayless]

Mark,

 

Thanks for the unsolicited critique. Please tell us more about how ethical you are and how much you care when you stop doing so much of your work in a zoo.

[lex_jenkins]

I kinda doubt that more than 1% of photo.netters are "fortunate" enough to reside in an area like ours so I'll try to justify myself, tho' I hardly think it necessary.

 

The critters in my area are hardly stressed by my occasional (once or twice a year) use of calls. There's ample food, water and cover here. I try to confine my use of calls to seasons when there's plenty of food available. For example: using crow calls late in the pecan harvest. There's plenty to eat, they're simply curious about the extra hollering going on. And believe me, crows are extremely curious and highly intelligent. I doubt that my calling is fooling them - they just want to see what idiot is trying to sound like a crow.

 

If it was a more extreme climate I might reconsider. But this is practically picnic central for turkey vultures, owls, crows, cranes, herons, geese and ducks, many of which nest and feed not 50 yards from where I'm sitting right now. Not to mention shingle-thieving squirrels.

 

I do avoid using calls in hot, humid weather. If it's uncomfortable to me...

 

I use the predator call only when the resident owls are already flying around. This is typically late in the day when it's already very difficult to get a shot. Fact is, I've never gotten a decent photo of the local owls - nothing but blurs. But I only recently bought a decent telephoto so maybe my chances will improve.

 

What would I object to? Hunting. Not that I object to hunting - I don't. I used to hunt - just gave it up because I enjoyed photography more. I'd just prefer that people don't do it here. Our lakefront is essentially a communal backyard for both people and critters. There are plenty of places to hunt in North Central Texas. This place can be left in relative peace.

 

Also, some unnecessary (IMO) development of expensive housing and golf courses fairly nearby is robbing the wildlife of their birthright turf. On the one hand, I don't like this because it's pretentious bullshit. My end of the lake is scruffy, kinda dumpy, but at least we have elbow room and haven't mucked up the natural wetlands, unlike the recent housing developments. On the other hand, this development is likely to force the wildlife closer to my place. So I might get more opportunities for photos of deer, wild turkey, etc. In fact, we had sort of a "pet" jake (young gobbler) that sort of adopted us. We've had runaway ostriches and emus hide out at our place too.

 

Anyway, as I said in my opening statement, I reside in a peculiar milieu that probably isn't familiar to most photo.netters. So you'll just have to excuse my cavalier attitude toward "wildlife". We live in an area that's more like a petting zoo, except we don't pet or feed the critters so that we don't interfere with their independence.

 

Andrew: In college I read the usual Melville stories - Moby-Dick, Billy Budd, Bartleby the Scrivener and Benito Cereno. My professor was a Melville scholar and provided us with unique insights and interpretations. But your reference is a bit too cryptic for me.

 

BTW, I also whistle at mockingbirds.

[andrew robertson]

I was trying to say that you can't take revenge on an animal regarding your point about the

owls and crows making noise all day.

 

Wasn't that a big point of Moby Dick, that you can't take revenge on an animal?

[mbb]

........Thanks for the unsolicited critique........

 

You are very welcome.

 

Bill, sorry but you have asked for it. In fact you solicited critique as you posted this snapshot as an example what can be done using bird's calls. I already mentioned it is not personal and I did not criticize your other photos posted some where else, as you did not ask for that. Just one more thing, please understand that if you post mug shot of Yeti and used call to get it I would be very enthusiastic about it. And you would be rich man from selling both shot and call.

 

...........Please tell us more about how ethical you are and how much you care when you stop doing so much of your work in a zoo........

 

Yes, I always enjoyed taking photos in ZOOs (in fact I was working close with some of them in the past). But in last few years I did not have time to visit any of them. If I only have chance I will do that. What I really missed is to watch inadequately evolved homo sapiens making all the calls to attract their cousin-apes and monkeys (or should I say brothers and sisters to some but that could be insult to apes). Not only calls but also making faces, beating chest with fists and all kind goodies of body signs. Pure fun. Or maybe apes are making calls and some homo sapiens specimens can hear them and respond? Apes sure look like having fun watching them.

 

If I have enough money I would travel all around the world non ?stop but still, I am sure, I would stop in some ZOOs few times a year. On another hand I am very thankful to you for your comment (even it is totally off topic and sarcastic) as I am over 2 years past due to update my site. I will give you a few highlights even you did not answered my question (sorry for being off topic ? I will try to do it very shortly): I rather prefer to spend time in field than work on computer and as you can see from my writing English is not my strong attribute. I need to beg my friends to check for mistakes in all my descriptions and text on my site. And I have hard time to find time for that as well. As I am working now on studying behavior of few selected species descriptions are as much important as photos. To summarize: my ZOO photo collection is much less than 0.01% of all my nature photo work. I also have a few research papers (research done in field not ZOO) published in the past and now, I hope, I will finish a few more. I have 0, null, nada real estate photos taken.

 

I won't collaborate with you about my ethics as I had too many problems with people harassing animals in wild and already learned a few lessons that talking to them are like talking to tree trunk (do not take that personal as I do not know you). If they believes are that good snake is a dead snake no argument can change it. Some of them looks bigger and meaner then me so getting their attention can be extremely difficult.

[mbb]

........BTW, I also whistle at mockingbirds..........

 

Lex as long you are not talking (or whistling) to yourself I think you are OK:)

 

From your writing I can see that you do not like to do any harm to nature but rather like to piss off a little some people from time to time:).

[bill_thorlin]

Lex - the paragraph "What would I object to" is a classic example of "NIMBY". Before you let fly I would say that there is often nothing really wrong in that. However as regards hunting, everywhere is somebody's "back yard" and should be left in peace as well - just a wider view.

 

I too am lucky to live in a little oasis, less than 20 miles from the middle of London, and hope that it can survive.

 

Every evening a blackbird perches on the (defunct) tv aerial or a dead elder on the edge of the garden. He goes into full song and I have taken to whistling back. He does not seem to mind but just outdoes me as I am sure he knows it is me and not a rival - sometimes he packs in first with a final flourish and sometimes it is me.

 

( I have just re-read this prior to posting and now I know I am cracking up)

[Two23]

As I recall, the theme of Moby Dick was not so much about animals as it was that people shouldn't allow themselves to be driven by revenge. But if that happened, where would all our great internet flame wars be? :-) And Lex, I would definitely be in your 1%--that's why I moved here. :-)

 

 

Kent in SD

[andrew robertson]

Oh gosh, cut the anti hunting crap unless you are 100% vegan / vegetarian. If you aren't

either of those, and still object to hunting, you are just a contract killer.

[phule]

<< Then there are those deer whisles folks place on their cars and trucks; to try to repel deer. >>

 

Which do absolutely nothing.

[alex k]

I would like to thank everyone for giving me their viewpoint on this topic.

 

I mentioned earlier that I might use calls to attact deer, moose, fox ect. I will give you an example of when I might use a call for a moose. I was up in Rangeley, Maine a few weeks ago. For those who don't know, Rangeley is a moose paradise. If someone drives around at dawn or dusk they are bound to see lots of moose. They only problem is moose tend to run away from a slowing vehicle. I mentioned this problem to a local and he suggested using a moose call. The call should keep the moose from running away until they are spooked by something else. I never got around to using a call (mostly because I didn't have one). However, I think that in this instance a call wouldn't be that bad. It would just keep the moose around until it got spooked by the inevitable stopping car.

 

Unfortuantly, I live in the suburbs and it is pretty difficult to a fox or coyote. I seen two where I live in 15 years. When I was in Vermont a saw 2 foxes in three days. The reason that I might use a call is to see if any foxes or coyotes were in the area. However, as a lot of people pointed out, these calls would disrupt their behavior. I will probably wait until winter to look for tracks. Any other suggestions for finding these predators would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks again.

Alex

[Two23]

I'll mention up front I'm not very familiar with moose. Every now and then one will wander over here from MN, but that's about it. I do have to wonder though if moose will react to calls outside of the breeding season. It's my experince that antlered critters seem to be silent the rest of the year, except for mothers locating their young.

 

 

Kent in SD

[jimstrutz]

I think you're right Kent. Most of the moose calls I've seen/heard are all about behavior during the breeding rut. Around here (Alaska) in late September/October, if you scrape a stick against a tree (imitating antlers being scraped clean), poor water into a bucket from 4 feet (imitating a moose urinating), make a few gutteral grunting noises (again imitating a horny moose), the local bulls come a runnin' just to check things out. There are also "calls" using string & coffee cans, and a whole lot of other variations. Some are very effective for hunting, but probably not for the average photographer unless they are brave enough to scurry about the woods at the same time as all those loose cannons. :)

 

Calls for predatory animals are a different concept though and might work any time. Whether one should or not is a different question.

 

I've found this thread interesting to see the difference in perspectives. In practice I think the morality of the issue is largely tied into where & when. For instance, to use a moose call during the rut will often produce considerable stress on an already greatly stressed bull moose, and is probably not the thing to do if all you want is a picture of it. Many bulls will not live through a harsh winter after using up so much of their meager fat storage during the rut. Answering to a few "seemingly harmless" moose calls from hunters and photographers could be the final straw for non-survival.

[andrew robertson]

If you are going to call moose, be prepared to die. They're pretty dumb and angry,

especially when in rut.

[alex k]

I agree that it is pretty dangerous to call a bull in the rut. I am talking about seeing a cow in a salt lick along side the road. If I were to use a call I would do so in my car. I am not sure what call to use but I have read that calls used during the rut can be used with some success (keep the moose from running away) in the spring and summer.

[jimstrutz]

Well, like I intimated, I would only do it with a gun in hand. :)

 

Actually I gave up hunting for lack of interest, and the plain fact that for a city slicker it has become cheaper to buy beef than hunt moose. If only they would let me shoot the ones that walk through my yard. I just need a little one. :) Oh well, they make for interesting photographic subjects even in suburbia.