Third-party screen for manual focus on D2X

[cd thacker]

I recall reading somewhere recently (I think it was here on the Nikon

forum or maybe the Leica forum) about a company that makes a focus

screen for the D2X that's meant exclusively for use with manual focus

lenses. I thought I'd bookmarked the thread but now can't find it,

and a search turns up nothing.

 

Anyone have any info about this? All help appreciated.

[tholte]

Maybe I am missing something here, a $5000 camera and you need a third part focusing screen?

[ellis_vener_photography]

CD is missing something.

 

I have been using the standard screen with various AI-S lenses, as well as AFd and G type

Nikkors in manual focus mode, with a D2X and haven't had a single focusing problem. Try

adjusting the diopter setting on the view finder.

[cd thacker]

I'm glad you're using manual focus lenses on the D2X with the existing screens without any problem. However, there <i>is</i> a screen, made by a third party, that is said to be better suited to this purpose. I just need to know who makes it.

[ellis_vener_photography]

if you buy one of those screens and your test results don't show an improvement, I hope

they have a money back guarrantee if you aren't satisfied.

[bernard_frank]

What has the price of the camera to do with CD's request? If the guy wants to try another

screen, why not? He does not need the sarcasm.

 

CD, try also the Digital Cameras Forum.

[brian_caldwell]

Ellis:

I've always had *alot* of trouble focusing fast lenses such as a 58/1.2 on my D1x, and I believe its entirely due to the focusing screen. What's going on is that the focusing screen is designed for maximum brightness, and so it doesn't work nearly as accurately for apertures below f/2.8. This is obvious by simply observing that the viewfinder image doesn't get significantly brighter as you open up a lens from f/2.8 to f/2 and then to f/1.4.

 

Is the D2x viewfinder better than the D1x viewfinder for manual focusing with fast lenses?

[michael_bradtke]

Brain

You view is always at full aperture unless you are using the DOF preview button.

So if a 1.2 lens is on the camera that is the stop that you are viewing at

[fourfa]

not true

[joseph_wisniewski]

CD - Two answers for you (well, why not, with 9 posts, no one else managed).

 

For my own D2X, I took a K3 screen (the split image screen for a FM3a), ground the little tab off, and inserted it using ordinary household tweezers. 4mm of the top edge of the screen isn't used (because of the D2X 1.5x crop) so if you damage a couple of mm of the focusing screen with regular tweezers (or even needle nose pliers) it won't matter. But do use the tweezers that come with the K3 screen to remove the old screen from the D2X.

 

You can also get a screen from IntenScreen (formerly Beattie, then Fresnel Optics, now Reflexite). I believe D2X takes the same screens as F100, but I can't remember for sure, so give them a call or email before ordering. One of these years, they're going to update their website. I don't like that screen on a Nikon digital, because the split image on a Beattie is bigger than a Nikon K3 split image to begin with. With the 1.5x crop, it dominates the viewfinder. You can get the IntenScreen in horizontal or diagonal split image, with or without grid lines. Lots of choices.

 

www.intenscreen.com

 

Good luck

[joseph_wisniewski]

Brian - the screen surface appears to be about the same on D1X and D2X. The D2X has a slightly higher magnification, 1.075x that of D1X, I doubt you'll notice the difference. Have you tried the Nikon DK-17M eyepiece? A cute little 2 lens Galilean telescope just 6mm thick, it gives you another 1.2x magnification looking through the finder, but doesn't deprive you of a view of all four corners of the finder and all the readouts.

 

Or try one of the split image focusing screens I mentioned to CD (Nikon K3 or IntenScreen split).

 

Or try an older K2 (or E2, if you don't like the split image). It might be dimmer, but it has more scattering, which should produce more "snap" with your f1.2 lenses.

 

If you like, you can send me those f1.2 lenses of yours, I'll let you know how well they're working on my D2X with DK-17M and K3 screen. I'll send you some pictures back every now and then to show you how happy your lenses are in their new home ;)

[joseph_wisniewski]

Tim - "Maybe I am missing something here, a $5000 camera and you need a third part focusing screen?"

 

Yup, you're missing something. Either field experience, or a sense of the history of photography. Screens are often not optimal for a given task, or don't meet particular user's preferences.

 

There are at least five companies making aftermarket focusing screens (IntenScreen, BrightScreen, Maxwell Precision Optics, Haouda, and KE optics).

 

People with $5000 Nikon D2X cameras sometimes change their screens. People with $8000 Canon 1Ds II's also change their screens. People with Hasselblads change their screens. People with 8x10 view cameras change their screens. People with cameras that cost more than your car change their screens. Why? Because no matter how good a camera, the focusing screen only is a small percentage of its cost, and there's always a way to spend a few more dollars and get a better one.

 

You can spend $250,000 on a Ferrari, but the tires won't be the best on the market, there's still room to upgrade.

[joseph_wisniewski]

Andy - yes, it is true.

[ilkka_nissila]

To my eye, the D2X/D2H(s) screen has more bite than the D1X screen and a higher magnification. In fact the D2 screen seems to have more bite than any of the recent film SLR screens.

 

Joseph, how is the focusing accuracy of your D2X? I keep reading stories that some people have AF problems with some screwdriver AF lenses and this camera. I'm a little concerned about it as I have 10 of these plain AF lenses ...

[tholte]

Bernard and Joseph, I still think it's goofy that you have to pay $5,000 for a camera body and then have to "grind off a tab" and put in a new screen so it is easier to focus with a manual lens. It may be the truth but it seems wacky to me. I am a Milwaukee lad and we like to get something that works nicely right out of the box. I don't blame Nikon either, I blame consumers that don't demand quality in the first place. I don't think the tail should wag the dog is all. It would be like paying for a new car and then having to upgrade to get window wipers that work. The tire analogy was pretty lame I thought.

[brian_caldwell]

Joe:

Thanks for all the info. I hadn't heard of the DK-17M eyepiece, but I will look into it. I know it must be possible to replace the focusing screen, since it actually fell out of my D1x once. I really should get more serious about customizing my cameras to meet my needs.

 

My 58/1.2 must stay home - sorry. However, I do have a spare 55/1.2 . . .

 

Brian

[brian_caldwell]

Michael:

I know that the viewfinder always uses the lens at full aperture. However, the scattering qualities of the screen can have a profound effect on how much of the full aperture you can actually see. As an extreme case, consider a focusing screen that is just a plain un-ground piece of glass. Yes, you could still see the aerial image through the viewfinder, but in bright daylight your eye will effectively stop the lens down to about f/30. If you were to press the DOF button and turn the aperture ring you would see no change in viewfinder brightness, even if you went all the way from f/22 to f/2.

 

The only way to accurately see what is going on at f/1.2 is to make sure that light from the outer portions of the ray bundles are actually getting into your eye. This can only happen if the viewfinder screen scatters enough light.

 

When I press the DOF preview button and turn the aperture ring, here's what happens:

 

1) Opening up from f/16 to f/11 to f/8, etc, through f/2.8 the brightness of the viewfinder image increases substantially at every one-stop increase.

 

2) Opening up from f/2.8 to f/2, the brighness increases a little, but not nearly as much as I would expect.

 

3) Opening up from f/2 to f/1.4 or f/1.2 produces no visible change in brightness, even in relatively dim conditions when my pupil is dilated somewhat.

 

In other words, the standard D1x viewfinder shows you *nothing* about what the lens is doing beyond about f/2. This is why its so hard to focus at f/1.2: you get f/2 viewfinder accuracy but f/1.2 DOF.

[joseph_wisniewski]

Ilkka - I've heard those stories, too. Happy to say my D2X is dead on, even if I use the outer focusing zones and the 85mm f1.4. And I didn't even have to send it in to get it to be accurate. All focusing systems agree, if I use AF, then "rock" the focus manually to either side of the point the camera focused on, it's pretty obvious that it hit it. And that focus point agrees with the split image. If I take that point and manually bracket the focus in small increments, everything agrees.

[cd thacker]

Thanks to everyone for their helpful answers. Thanks especially to Joseph Wisniewski, who provided the answers I was looking for. (Btw, I notice Joseph has some pretty <a href="http://www.pbase.com/the_wiz">interesting images</a> up at PBase. Check 'em out.)

[joseph_wisniewski]

Tim - "I am a Milwaukee lad and we like to get something that works nicely right out of the box. I don't blame Nikon either, I blame consumers that don't demand quality in the first place."

 

It does work nice, right out of the box. The electronic rangefinder is surprisingly useful. It's just possible to make it work a little better. (And "better" might not be the right word, it might be more accurate to say it works more the way I'm "used to", or even the way I'm "nostalgic for").

 

Believe me, Nikon likes money. If there was enough demand for a split image screen in D2X flavor, Nikon would make one, so you didn't have to grind tabs off a FM3a screen. No other brand is any different, split image screens stopped being standard items when autofocus started taking over in the laet 80s.

 

And it's not a "demanding quality" issue. With a servicible autofocus system, a clean viewfinder without focus aides in the center is a very nice thing, indeed.

[joseph_wisniewski]

Brian - you're quite welcome. I may take you up on the 55mm f1.2. You're sure you want to hang onto that 58?

[joseph_wisniewski]

CD, you're quite welcome.

 

And wait till you see the new gallery I'm struggling to get up.

[michael_bradtke]

Brian

 

I understand what you are saying but I do not have your problem.

I shoot with a D2h using fast primes. Most of them are AI or AI-S

I am talking 55 1.2, 50 1.4, 35 1.4 85 1.4.

 

I did change the screen in my D2h to the available grid screen from Nikon.

 

My eyes are not the best and I have very little problem shooting with those lenses wide open in low light.

 

I also use those same lenses on my F3 and my 1970 vintage F.

I guess it is all in what you get used to

 

Michael

[chris_nikon]

Hi Joseph, I have tried to put the K3 screen in the D2X but its far too large! How did you cut yours to fit whilst making sure the split focusing section was completly centered?

Thanks

Chris

[johannes_bohnacker]

I just want to remark that using a split-image screen makes spot metering with

in-viewfinder sensors impossible, because, depending on the lens, the

brightness of the split image area deviates from that of the surrounding

ground glass area. Therefore spot metering becomes unreliable. Matrix

metering may work or may not, depending on how much the center area

brightness is included into the evaluation of the brightness of a particular

scene, and how the matrix pattern is arranged. I'm convinced that this is the

reason why

- spot metering was not introduced for the FM/FE series

- split-image screens are not offered by Nikon as an option for most AF

cameras with interchangeable focusing screens

 

I once tested a screen from an F301 in an F801s, and it worked perfectly

except spot metering, which became dependent on the lens used. At least I

could prove to myself that the AF system of this camera works spot-on and as

precisely as I could focus manually with a split-image screen. Since that, I trust

it much more than ever before.

 

Btw. Leica uses a flip-down mirror and measures the spot value at the bottom

of the mirror box - a method which avoids influences of the split-image area.

But this area is occupied by the AF sensor in AF cameras.