bdpics Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 An earlier thread like this was deleted because it turned personal-- I'd very much appreciate it if posters to this thread (including myself!!) would stick to the topic... I think that we should be able to delete unwanted comments from our galleries/images. While I can understand that being able to delete ratings would skew the ratings process, comments are not weighted in any ratings scheme. My gallery is my "personal workspace" and I feel that I should have the ability to delete or hide comments from people that I deem inappropriate and/or that are unwanted. In my case, I've had a conflict with a Photo.net member who then decided to rate and comment upon my entire gallery, even though I did not request a public critique for most of my images. In my opinion, the comments are intended to be "jabs" at me--even though to some they may appear innocuous (other PN members have written to me to complain about similar "behavior" by this individual). Regardless of the validity/tone of the comments and ratings, it seems to make sense that we be able to hide/delete comments we deem innappropriate. For example, certain images may provoke unwanted controversey (i.e. political, nudes, etc.) and I have seen many instances of unwanted flirting and self-promotion ("hey, that's a nice shot, check out mine at www.feedmyego.com....") contained in the comments section of people's galleries. Surely it's easier for us to hide/delete these unwanted comments ourselves than to have to go running to the administrators every time.....FWIW, the other two photography sites that I post my images to allow this to be done. Thanks, Bret D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_nitsche Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 The 'reason' for p.net's existance is to get feedback and thoughts on images. Sometimes they won't be to your liking but they are honest thoughts from the viewer most of the time. If they turn personal or you think they are abusive send an email to abuse@photo.net and they will be removed by the moderators. Brian and Jeremy have both done it for me. They have also left comments that I thought at the time were abusive but it turns out I was wrong and just a bit too thin skinned. Comments would end up being just a love fest of "wow, your the greatest" if people were given the opportunity to censor their own galleries. If you know this individual has something against you or your images, and you think it is personal just ignore it and email abuse. If they don't remove them then you either delete the image or deal with it. I had a go round with one member here a while back and after a week or so I realized he was right. I removed my comments and just put apologize in there place. Looking back at it now, I am glad those comments are there because it helps me realize what an idiot I can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yongbo Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Comments and ratings are allowed. If the individual didn't add any value to the community and keep causing the problems, that member could be banned. Making noise can definitely caught people's attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mottershead Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 I've thought about doing this a lot, and have been on the verge of doing it a few times. The arguments in favor of doing it are: (1) it would reduce moderator time to clean up photo/portfolio threads where personal comments were being made. At present there are a lot of photographers, and not many moderators. In effect, the photographer would become the moderator of the comment threads on his own photos, presentations, and portfolio. (2) it would give photographers the feeling that they had more control over their portfolio and they would not need to fear that a comment from some idiot would be seen by everybody that they sent to view their portfolio. Today the only means a photographer has to exercise control is to delete a photo entirely. (3) it might deter people from writing whiny off-topic "I hate you because you rated my photos loooow" comments on members' photos, if they knew the member could just delete them. The arguments against doing it are: (1) Members might not bother writing critiques if they know that a thin-skinned photographer was just going to delete them. (Of course, today they must reckon with the prospect that a photographer is going to delete the photo.) (2) The threads are not supposed to be solely for the benefit of the photographer; they are supposed to be for the benefit of anybody viewing the photograph. Hopefully, not only the photographer but anybody looking at the photos, can learn from a perceptive comment. Should a thin-skinned photographer be allowed to remove a perceptive comment that would be instructional for others (and instructional for the photographer if he weren't so thin-skinned)? (3) It might turn the photo threads into mailboxes for sending messages to the photographer, knowing that the photographer can delete them when he's read them. The rest of the world then has to plough through all the "Hi Boris, long time no see. How's the wife and kids?" messages that might start being written. Today, we have some of that already, but it might get worse. In balancing these arguments, I've tried to come up with ideas to mitigate the "touchy photographer" problem. For example, one might keep track of how many times a photographer removes comments, and report this to someone who is starting to write a comment -- some kind of "touchy photographer -- doesn't like criticism -- your comment is probably going to get deleted if you are critical" warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knicki____ Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 I agree with Dave on this subject. Sometimes with some space and time view points change and what once seemed infuriating isnt anymore. The comments left on photos are not always for the photo's poster but for everyone else who comes along afterwards. I have learned more from the people who pointed out slight or even big weaknesses in photos over the hey wow great photo comments. I'd take hey this photo bites and this is why over hey thats cool on any of my shots any day. It doesnt always feel good but then life doesnt always feel good either. If someone has a problem with someone else's comments then a nice email requesting them to cease and desist should be done and if it gets personal and vulgar then involve the abuse folks. On the subject of nudes and political shots generating unwanted controversy. In general people know that most if not all political ideas/shots will have some controversy as do nudes so posting one thinking that there wont be any controversy is having ones head in the sand. And on that note deleting any comments that the poster would feel doesnt fit their idea would be censorship and with that where is the discussion and learning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdpics Posted June 28, 2005 Author Share Posted June 28, 2005 Brian, if you are considering a hide/delete function for gallery comments (and I hope you are) perhaps the "thin-skinned photographer warning" could simply occur at the time a new critique is going to be posted "...this gallery owner has deleted 'X' comments from their critique section." One other aspect of this is that I think there is a differnce between images put forth on PN for critique/review and those that are not. In my case for 2/3's of my images I did NOT request feedback, and yet two individuals now have taken it upon themselves to enter my gallery and post unwanted comments/ratings. At the very least should we not be able to have some control over images that we did not seek comment on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mottershead Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 The topic of this thread is whether or not photgraphers should be able to delete comments on their photos, presentations, or portfolio. This thread is not yet another discussion of rating practices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natureshots Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 No, because I don't want praises on my photos that each scene has been capture at least 10 million and 1 times. Yes, for those affected by all this mess. I have a lot of respect for those who consistently receive high ratings, because I can't do it. For one individual to drag the whole portfolio down is unjust, knowingly by the way. Bret should get his wishes (if he's asking) because he's collateral damage. But the short answer for now is "No" and stay with the individual cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knicki____ Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 I'm sorry but I think its odd (for lack of a better word) to post any photos on a critique site and not want comments good or bad. If one is not posting photos for comment then why is one posting photos? It's been stated there are other photo sites that allow this. Why does pn have to be like the others. Seems the other sites already fullfill the need to censor comments. Instead of making pn where you can delete comments of others on shots why not post a web site link that has your photos without ability to critique them. I dont like the idea of others deeming what is and what is not appropriate, past the site guidelines, for me to read on a photo's critique thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdpics Posted June 28, 2005 Author Share Posted June 28, 2005 Knicki you're right in a sense. Truth be told, if someone had "invaded" my gallery and rated everything 6's and 7's and left comments like "Wow, these are the best photos I've ever seen," I likely would not be complaining (I wouldn't believe them-but I wouldn't complain!!) LOL But there are two real issues here. 1. People shouldn't be allowed to venge-comment our galleries and force us to pester the admin to change it. A "good" stalker/abuser will never blatantly attack somebody--they will instead appear to be innocuous and harmless, all the while proclaiming their innocence and seeking empathy in order to further taunt their victims.... 2. I'd like to leave some images in my portfolio that are just for those who take the time to view my various folders instead of running them through the rate-recent gauntlet. I guess I see it as rate-recent images are for mass-viewing while images I DON'T request a rating for are more private as they are in "my workspace." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholasprice Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 B, I don't understand what you are talking about in this thread. I have looked through your portfolio, and cannot see that anyone has rated or commented on all your photographs as you have suggested? There doesn't seem to be a problem for you like you suggest? Can you explain? Regards, Nick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholasprice Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Hang on B, I appologise and withdraw my above question - for once you are not slagging me off for giving you ratings - perhaps now you will realise that I was just being honest! The words of Aristotle come to mind, but I shall not qoute them, that would be smug! Regards, Nick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholasprice Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 B, in serious answer to your point 2 above - do you not realise that you can post an image for critique only! If you do this, and ratings that the image has been given (from keen friends or honest neutrals) are negated, and no-one else can rate the image. The image can then only be commented upon! - here is your answer for the images that you don't want rated, if that is what you really want. Regards, Nick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tholte Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 I think it is a bad idea to be able to delete your comments for two reasons. Number one, knowing that the comment will never be deleted (unless the poster of the image deletes the photo) should make one think hard and long about what they say before posting. Number two, it is possible to make someone look like a real idiot by deleting your comment, when your comment provoked other comments. Not seeing the comment that spurred other comments in the thread can be pretty confusing and silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mottershead Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 As you point out, one of the problems with letting photographers be moderators of their own comment threads is that many of them wouldn't be very good at it and would delete reasonable comments and/or make a hash of the threads. For one thing, being a moderator requires somewhat of a thick skin. Although one might think that people submitting photos on the Internet for critique and rating would have chitinous exoskeletons, in fact it turns out that frequently the opposite is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vasilis Posted June 29, 2005 Share Posted June 29, 2005 I think that it is better not to leave photographers being moderators. I think that in a site that the main goal is to discuss moderation should be kept to a minimum. The type of moderation from the photographers that we will get it will not be the moderation I would like to see in the site. The problems of the site according to my view is comments that are of the type "7/7 excellent" and not the other way round. By all this I do not express any opinion about the original post by Bret that he may be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h._p. Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 I think it's a bad idea. In my opinion, you'll end up with no criticism and little debate. Actually, I gave up commenting on pictures because criticism was often replied to with vitriol and, after a while, my anti-acid spider suit wore a little thin. Let these people control the comments on their picture and it *will* be 'wow' all the way.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith turrill Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Perhaps there should be a system time limit for a user making more than one or two comments on any one specific critique thread or portfolio in a 24 hour period. This might help keep the critique process on point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vasilis Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Keith, I think that not letting successive comments actually would negate discussion.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbb Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 I believe that photographer should have an option to remove others comments but ONLY on photos not requested for critique. Request for critique is an invitation for any opinion from all members. But posting only to show his/her work should be respected as a private (well, semiprivate) page where photographer has right to be not interested in others opinions especially if he/she find them uninteresting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h._p. Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 "But posting only to show his/her work should be respected as a private (well, semiprivate) page where photographer has right to be not interested in others opinions especially if he/she find them uninteresting." That's totally illogical! The whole point of photo.net is that it's a community resource. That's how Philip Greenspun set it up and, so far as I know, that's how it continues. It's a gigantic bulletin board where you paste up your pictures and people can paste up their comments. I'd think that if you just want your pictures on the net and don't want comments you should shell out for your own web site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholasprice Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 Harvey, I agree that it would be very silly, if not illogical, but that is not how photo.net used to be. Back in 2001, when I first joined there was the ability to post photographs that would not be available for the general public, at the time I couldn't really understand why this feature existed, and I suspect that it was removed because it was redundant and used up mainframe space. I suspect that B's desire would be a two tier system of ratings requests. General requests to the whole community, where photographers tend to recieve a wide range of ratings, keeping their "Photographer's Average" down, and a second system where friends, mates, and photographers with similar tastes and styles can be invited to give the chosen photographs high ratings, which may keep some photographers happy (those who get upset when they realise the stark truth that they are pretty average if they ask everyone!). If this happens, then such "exclusive" photographs should not count towards the "Photographer's Average", which may upset B's way of seeing the ratings world? In my opinion, all photographs should automatically be up for critique from the whole community from the moment they are posted. Allowing the photographer to "post" it or not just seems to allow underhand gamesmanship. Lets see what happens to the "photographer's Average" page if only photographs posted for critique are allowed to count? - I suspect that there would be a significant change, although I would be nowhere near it! Regards, Nick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdpics Posted July 1, 2005 Author Share Posted July 1, 2005 Nic, my request has absolutely nothing to do with my photographer's average, mate-rating, etc. If I had posted the images to be mate-rated, then why weren't there any mate rates present before you went and rated my images?? What my request IS about is the fact that a photo.net member took it upon himself to go my gallery and rate and comment on all of my images, including the majority of which that I have never "publicly released" into the critique forum. Further, this person's actions were only taken AFTER we'd had a conflict, and I believe they were meant to be malicious/retaliatory and I'd like to not have to look this person's comments in MY workspace--it's really just that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholasprice Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 B, you cannot count - ;) Have a look at your gallery - noone has either rated or commented upon all your images! I think that things are quite transparent, and do relate to ratings scores, otherwise why would anyone care about ratings high or low? Fondest regards, and happy tidings from Nick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholasprice Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 PS - check photo.net's policy, and you will find that all the images that you post here are publicly visible - that just how it is, perhaps when you have been a member here for some time, these trivial matters will start to have less significance. Regards, Nick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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