Water spots or Fixer spots?

[railhead]

Only on the rarest of occasions have I ever had any water spots -- or any spots -- on my

negs. However, this "winning streak" has ended since I started using Diafine -- but I don't

see how the Diafine could have anything to do with anything. All other steps in my process

are just as they have been. I use Photo-Flo, too.

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Here's a snippet of one of my negs (that's a power line in the middle):

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<img src="http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/8180/photoshop0015kd.jpg">

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My negs are covered with spots like this. It's like I sneezed all over them! =(

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Someone, give me some advice!

[railhead]

I forgot to mention that I Fixed for 10 minutes on the last 2 rolls (all of which had spots).

When using D-76, I always Fixed for 7.5 minutes. The film is Fuji Acros 100.

[michaelging]

could they be air bells from not rapping the tank after filling it?

[stephen gale uk]

I agree with Michael.

 

Air bells would tend to produce circular spots where the negative is less developed. These would then produce darker spots on the print. Which is what you have. Having said that, I have never seen these in practice. I use inversion agitation for 10 seconds every minute and haven't ever encountered this problem. Maybe I have just be lucky!

 

Drying marks usually leave a ring or a crescent where the solids in the water are left behind once the water has evaporated.

 

I doubt that these spots are due to the fixer.

 

Hope this helps.

[ronald_moravec1]

There are undissolved chemicals in the developer.

 

Try a short length of film in the old developer and you should be able to find the source of the problem. Look at the film after fix and wash to see where and when the dark spots appear.

 

Fix will leave irregular spots if silver from previous films precipitates out and sticks to the next film. I do not reuse fix for this reason, but this is not that problem.

[oliver pera]

I also experienced these effects lately, starting a few month ago, although I did not change my development habits then. I also suspect air bells to be the reason for it and hence after my inversions use more force than before to slam the tank on the ground, but the negatives developed yesterday show these effects again. I do not know a solution yet but I will continue to vary the variables in the process. Variation of developer and film didn't help (at first it only occurred to Neopan 400 in HC110(B), but now it happened to HP5+ in DD-X, too), so I will start using destilled water and watch the outcome for a few weeks.

[railhead]

That all makes sense (of course). Maybe the D-76 isn't so touchy as far as air bells go,

compared to Diafine?

 

I *do* rap the tank bottom, but here's a question: if the developer says to agitate in the first 5

seconds but it takes 10-15 to pour 900ml of dev into the full tank, how am I supposed to

agitate? Do you guys just swirl the tank around a bit, pouring as quickly as possible, then

slam on the cap and rap the bottom?

[mcsimard]

Hi Maury

With the developper the first agitation should be 30 seconds long, and then 5 seconds every 30 seconds. You'll find these directions in many reliable books, including Ansel Adams'S. Take care.

[chris_waller]

These are the result of air-bells on the film. Wither rap the tank quite vigorously after pouring in the developer, or give a pre-soak (2 mins and rap the tank a few times) to ensure the emulsion is thoroughly wetted before developing.

[conrad_hoffman]

Initial agitation is critical to negative quality. You need to agitate for the first 30-45 seconds. Use full 180 degree inversions and don't be too gentle about it. In that environment, air bells just can't exist. Chemical particles will be swept away and not adhere to the film. I dump in the developer and start the timer as I set down the bottle. Cap or lid goes on and the agitation starts. Inversions at a rate of about six-seven in ten seconds. Every five inversions I knock the bottom corner of the tank on the table, with the tank at a 45 degree angle. It sits for the last 15 seconds of the first minute, then agitation begins for ten seconds at the top of every minute. Five every 30 or ten every minute makes little difference. I prefer the more leasurely ten every minute. I still knock the tank gently at the end of every agitation cycle. That's probably more detail than you wanted to know, but the process has given me flawless negs for about 35 years now.

[railhead]

I guess D-76 is more forgiving than Diafine. =)

 

How long does it take for an air bell to spot film? Again, if I'm pouring 900ml of dev into

my tank, I obviously can't invert the tank in those first few seconds. So should I be trying

to bounce the tank while I pour the dev in (pouring as quickly as possible), and then start

the massive agitation?

 

Like I said in an earlier post, it can take 10-15 seconds to pour 900ml into the tank

without it overflowing -- but it seems that those seconds are the seconds in which air

bells kill my negs.

 

Thoughts?

[ronald_moravec1]

Uneven wetting will mark film almost instantly. The wet edge must start and move across the film without stopping as fast as possible.

The swirl trick worked or years for me, but I marked a frame or two last year.

 

The proper method is to drop the film into the tank already full of developer, cap, rap, and invert for 30 sec minimum. This avoids all problems with uneven wetting, air bells etc. Other methods work sometimes, but sooner or later there will be a problem.

[railhead]

I don't see how one drops film into a full tank without having a darkroom.

[paul_hoyt]

Maury,

 

The concensus seems to be you have air bells in your developer. Do you pre-soak your film? The pre-soak should take 2 mintes to completely wet your film. If you use light tight tanks, you can ene-over-end agitate as much as you want, you can not over agitate water. Pour out the water, tip your tank to 45 degrees, start your timer and pour in your developer. After the developer is in, about 15 seconds, end-over-end agitate until your timer is at the 1 minute mark, then follow your regular developiong scheme.

20-25 years ago I read an article about developing procedures and the author(s) did not recommend the rap after agitiation. They claimed it did not completely remove air bells. They recommended a quick shake of the tank. Move the top of the tank back and forth very quickly from 10:00 to 2:00. To prove the point they suggested the reader should try each method with blank film and remove the lid to look down on the film to see if there are any air bells after the rap or shake. I tried the experiment and both methods removed air bells for me, but I changed to the shake since the article had other suggestions that dramatically improved my negatives.

 

Paul

[railhead]

Diafine says not to pre-soak.

[walterh]

I used to pre-soak film with thick emulsions but now I do this no more with modern films as it seems no more necessary. But if you have a possible problem with air bubbles of course you can pre soak and bang the tank a couple of times. There is no harm in pre-soaking. You may just need slightly shorter dev. times say 30s in case your total dev. times are very short. After pre soaking the developer can start a bit faster .-)

[paul_hoyt]

There are differences of opinion on the practicality of pre-soaking film. Some film manufacturers say in their package inserts their films do not need to be pre-soaked. Yet, I have never read a post or heard a photographer say he ruined his negatives by pre-soaking his film. The whole idea of the pre-soak is to wet the film and then let the developer displace the residual water in the film to start development. The already wet film starts development very evenly. The only draw-back is it may increase the development time by 20 to 30 seconds. If diafine as a developer is so finicky that the residual water in the emulsion from a pre-soak alters its ability to develop a negative properly, then under no circumstances pre-soak your negatives. I just doubt it.

 

Paul

[conrad_hoffman]

Just a guess, but I suspect rapping the tank does absolutely nothing, it just makes you feel more confident. It's the 180 degree end over end that accomplishes the desired result. It takes me about 15 seconds to fill the tank, and I've never had an air bell in my life.