Now Mamiya is out of camera business. Does it affect high end Nikon Digital camera market?

[asharma]

Interesting article:

 

http://digitalphotography.weblogsinc.com/2006/04/21/mamiya-to-sell-

camera-business/

 

and link to medium format forum:

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00G85F&tag=

[asharma]

better link:

 

http://digitalphotography.weblogsinc.com/2006/04/21/mamiya-to-sell-camera-business/

[ilkka_nissila]

I don't quite see whether the new owner will continue making cameras. If so, this doesn't necessarily have any negative effect on users; see Sony buying Konica-Minolta's camera business.

 

In any case Nikon competes in the bottom-to-mid-range digital cameras, not the high end so it's probably Canon who will score big if Mamiya cameras actually stop being made.

[ilkka_nissila]

To be more precise, Canon has probably already taken over what used to be Mamiya's customer base.

[at]

"...Nikon competes in the bottom-to-mid-range digital cameras, not the high end..."

 

Explain this statement to me please. Nikon most certainly competes in the high end digital camera business. Is high end a function of full frame sensors? Strickly market share? Is there a megapixel threshold you have to cross before you're considered high end?

While it may not have either it is a player in high end digital.

[asharma]

I think Nikon and canon both had pressures to produce better high end digital, to prevent some pros to gravitate towards $12k Mamiya ZD or even more affordable Pentax 645 Digital (If its ever marketed). I do not know much about camera marketing, but I think less competition means less pressures to improve.

 

At the same time, I think it is very intersting time for Nikon/ Canon. People who were waiting for years for ZD Mamiya backs may choose these camera over high cost Hasselblad digital. Again, its just my guess, not a calculated prediction.

[ilkka_nissila]

I guess what is high end is a matter of interpretation. The Mamiya ZD has twice the sensor area of 35mm cameras, which is >4 times the area of the sensors in Nikon digital SLR cameras. This is why I'm saying that they do not overlap in applications or users.

[ilkka_nissila]

One thing which seems strange to me is happening. In the beginning of digital capture, large sensors are expensive, and smaller get to be popular. At some point the publishers start preferring digital files instead of slides, which basically kills the medium format camera business. Then, gradually, as technology advances, sensors get larger and quality gets better but who makes cameras and lenses for these large sensors? I guess it's possible that these will be entirely different companies than who made medium format film cameras, since these seem to be dying out. It's just a shame for all the existing lenses. What a waste.

[arnabdas]

Professional food/product photographers, Vogue/Playboy etc. mags, big co. calendar shooters shoot hasseys with digital back or Mamiya film camera systems. That's probably the kind of high-end Ilkka is referring to.

 

I have not heard/seen any of those people using a D2x. However, I do know of many commercial studio shooters who upgraded from Mamiya RB/RZ to the Canon 1Ds/II.

[asharma]

Arnab, I think some pros are using D2X, and Canon 1Ds/II. I recently came across some nice exhibition of D2X pics and those really looked like medium format, especially the size of prints and resolution.

 

I don't think that moving from Mamiya RB/RZ to Canon 1Ds/II is actually upgrading.

[ky2]

Anil, MF backs run up to 39mpixels nowdays. The D2x is certainly not up to the challenge-- not for studio work that is.

 

This is very bad news.

[EricM]

"The D2x is certainly not up to the challenge-- not for studio work that is."

 

Does fine in mine...when it focuses...

[ShunCheung]

After printing some farily large prints (~30"x20") shot with my D2X, I have pretty much stopped shooting medium format film also, let alone 35mm film.

 

Those $40K, 39MP digital backs are merely part of a very narrow niche market. Only a handful of studios will need that kind of quality and can afford it. Many pros will just rent one for the few days they need it.

 

IMO, it is only a matter of time that most medium-format manufacturers will get out of that business, with perhaps one or two such as Hasselblad left. There simply isn't a sufficient market to support them any more.

[calvin_lee]

Last month, I sold the last of my medium format camera equipment. I also sold my Nikon Coolscan 9000 Film Scanner. I now have both a Nikon D2x and a Canon 5D.

[ellis_vener_photography]

Actually Shun you'd be surprised by the robustness of this market currently. It is in the hundreds of millions USD worldwide. I've done the research so I'm not just conjecturing. Nowhere nearas big as a consumer based camera market but still there is a lot of money being spent on medium format digital backs by advertising, catalog, commercial and portrait photography studios. Will that trend continue? The crystal ball is cloudy on this.

[wen_lin]

I think now is the best time to buy MF stuff.

 

Picked up Bronica ETRSi kit for peanuts. Recently bought a Mamiya 7ii with 43mm and 80mm at a good price and I am really enjoying 6x7 slides. digital is good but when it comes to landscape stuff or when you really need fine detail, you need bigger sensor/negative.

 

I'm gonna try to post a pic. In the pic, I can read "Spirit of Tasmania" on the ship in distant with a 8x loupe on my slide

[wen_lin]

This is the scanned 645 slide from a flextight 949 at viewable (or so I hope) res

[wen_lin]

sorry..it's not viewable. But this is a cropped portion of the ship in the distant. About 300% crop. It doesn't look all that great, but the original scan wasn't an extremely high res scan. but something like that would be hard for 35mm based sensor/film to do.

 

The slide looks fantastic on a lightbox

[ShunCheung]

Ellis, I don't doubt your numbers. However, the days that practially every higher-end wedding photographer uses a Hasselblad system are long gone. Being a high-end player, most likely Hasselblad will survive. But I question whether Mamiya can deliver, for example. Their ZD system was announced back in September 2004 but is still not quite available yet, at least not at B&H.

 

Had I known how good 35mm digital would be, I would never have bought my Contax 645 in 2001. Of course they are gone, as well, even though their camera and lenses are exellent.

[berg_na]

For product photography, the 1DsMkII is hardly up to the job -- from the full-size samples displayed on this page: <a href="http://www.studiosamikulju.fi/playground/pages/jpegs.html" target=blank>http://www.studiosamikulju.fi/playground/pages/jpegs.html</a> -- the D2x appears to have slightly better resolution than the 1DsMkII and 5D, but both the 22-Mpixel Sinar 54H and Leaf Aptus 22 beat it by a wide margin. There are still applications that require true MF format quality.

[EricM]

"However, the days that practially every higher-end wedding photographer uses a Hasselblad system are long gone."

 

this is hardly a pro photography market. i doubt kodak and fuji even miss the film sales. buy a copy of W magazine and study all the product and fashion spreads for an idea where medium format is important for the pro market.

[vivek iyer]

I am a little tired of these discussions. What do these things do to my photography or anyone else's for that matter?

 

Why worry if Mamiya goes belly up or Nikon is selling coolpixes?

[ilkka_nissila]

Vivek, would you worry if Nikon went belly up? How about if the whole photography business thought that it was no longer worthwhile commercially and we had to start making our own cameras?

[vivek iyer]

No worries, Ilkka. Exakta, Topcon, Minolta,..the list is endless.

[ShunCheung]

Depending on how the Mamiya situation develops, Ilkka could potentially end up in the same boat as me. He bought a 7 II not that long ago. Of course, my Contax 645 still works wonderfully as in day 1, but I am not going to put any more money into that system.