Tri-X or Tmax for beginning photo students?

[jan_roddy]

I have been away from teaching basic black and white processing for a few years; working in the world of advanced and digital courses. As I get prepared to bet back to teaching basic this fall I am once again pondering whether I should start students with the T-grain based films or stick with good old Tri-X or HP5. I had not made the switch to t-grain in my classes last time around. Any suggestions/experiences from fellow instructors?

 

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P.S. I still stick with the traditional emulsion films for my own work, and just processed a few roles of old T-Max I found laying around. Is the used developer/fix and washing agent supposed to be that purple or did that have to do with the age of the film?

[paul_harris]

Tri-X or HP5+ (or FP4+ for some). They can switch to tabular

grain films later, if they end up preferring them. Much less

frustrating for a beginner. Ilford's delta films might be an

alternate second step. We get to stay in touch with our roots

that way :)

[charlie_strack]

T-Max films have an anti-halation dye that, if you are lucky, comes

off during processing. This is the purple you are seeing and it is

normal.

 

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For people starting in photography, I would strongly recommend

traditional emulsions like Tri-X, HP5+, etc. The modern emulsions

like TMax and Delta require very tight control of time and

temperature for processing, which might be asking too much of

beginners. On the other hand, it would teach the importance of

controlling the process. But, what's the point if they give up in

frustration?

 

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You might consider Freestyle's film as a cost saving measure. It is

reputed to be Ilford film.

[sam_elkind]

Without hesitation, I would recommend Tri-X. I am pretty experienced

but still have a feeling of discomfort with the T-grain films. Tri-X

is a trustworthy film that allows photographers of all experience

levels to be successful.

[john_hicks]

Use TX, PX, HP5+ or FP4+ to start; they're rather forgiving. At some point switch to T-Max 100.

 

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The point of changing is that students need to learn early on that they can't be sloppy.

[john_hicks]

BTW, you can easily remove the dye by using an HCA after the fix. Either use bottled stuff or make you own by dissolving a tablespoon of sodium sulfite in a quart of water.

[rsriram]

I would recommend HP5+ without hesitation. It is similar to Tri-X, in that it is an old tech film, but in my experience, HP5+ handles errors in exposure and processing better than Tri-X. Chalk it down to personal preference, but HP5+ rules!

[pete_andrews]

I think you should definitely let your students know that T grain

and Delta films are out there. The improvement in smoothness of tone

that can be achieved with Tmax is about the equivalent of going up a

format size. I don't agree that film development is any more critical

with Tmax, but printing is. (anyway, teaching tight process control

should be the norm) Used with Tmax developer these films can give

straight line D/LogE curves up to 3.0D or more. Getting that on paper

is a bit of an art.

[marc_mccloud]

Pete - Interesting comment about the printing of TMAX. For the benefit

of those of us using TMAX films, please comment further.

[charlie_strack]

I disagree with Peter's last post.

 

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1. TMax films seem more "jumpy" to me and many others, that is they

lack a smooth tonal scale. This is caused by their high micro-

contrast. There is, however, no question that they provide a finer

grain pattern.

 

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2. TMax films require greater development care. The provide a bigger

density change than traditional emulsions for a given change in

development time (as a % of normal).Not only is this clearly

documented in the magazine articles over the past decade, Kodak

claims it was a design goal. In any case, the shape of the T-grain

easily explains this phenomenon.

 

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My point is that is faster and easier for a student just learning

photographic processes to start getting decent results with the

traditional film. The sooner this happens, the greater the chances of

continuing their photographic endeavors.

[conrad_hoffman]

IMHO, TMAX-100 is a poor choice of film for 35mm work, regardless of

how careful you are with development, choice of chemistry, etc. The

film has low apparant sharpness compared to other films of similar

speed. With studio lighting and the right subjects it can be very

good, but as a general purpose film it disappoints more often than

not. I've had more success with TMAX-400- it has a very fine grain

pattern, but Tri-X remains the champ in terms of latitude and a

pleasing curve shape. Get and read The Film Developing Cookbook by

Stephen G. Anchell & Bill Troop for a better overview.

[scott walton]

Here here, I couldn't have said it better myself!

[jan_roddy]

You all assure me that my instincts to start students on TX and

introduce them to T-grain and the variety of other films later in the

semester is probably the correct one.

 

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Thanks for all of the input.

[patrick_osullivan1]

Being that I took "Visual Communications I" this past year in high

school, I can give a first hand opinion. We used TMAX 400 exclusively,

rolling it ourselves from bulk loaders. We developed it in D-76 and at

least I got pretty good results. Nothing "outstanding," but it isn't

that hard to develop. I'm guessing this is a college level course

judging from your e-mail address, so you will expect more from them.

If you watch your clock well, and have them develop at 68 degrees (F),

you shouldn't have problems. It's only when you start developing at

about 75 degrees when there's a time issue with TMAX in D-76. At 68

degrees, 30 seconds or so never made a big difference for anyone. Just

keep your fixer good, because I've seen many strips of film come out

of the process quite purple because of lack of fixing time. To correct

that problem, you can throw it in the darkroom fixer to eliminate some

of the purple. As for the darkroom, we used plain Kodak B&W paper and

Dektol. Hope that helps.