greg_brosnan Posted March 25, 1999 Share Posted March 25, 1999 HI - I'm just starting out developing b&w. On paper my whites tend to turn out greyish and rather than blacks I get charcoal grey. My amplifier is on the old side, but I think reasonable. Is it better to develop quickly and brightly, or give it more time and smaller aperture? What could I be doing wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marv_thompson Posted March 25, 1999 Share Posted March 25, 1999 I would suggest that possibly you are under developing the prints, grey whites and blacks would lead me so belive this is the case. <p> I would only change one facet of your procedure at a time, then you can tell if that change has had an effect. <p> Try making five identical prints and developing them at different times, 30 seconds, 1 minute, 1 minute and 30 seconds, 2 minutes and 3 minutes. See what the difference is , I think you will find that the longer the development the darker the blacks and the better the contrast. <p> If this helps but doesn't completely solve the problem, try a different set of exposure times, in conjunction with the different development times. Keep notes, write right on the back of the prints with an indelible marker, before you get them wet, with what you did, so you can make changes and not repeat the same mistakes. Don't worry about ruining these prints, they are tests not finished prints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_gibson Posted March 26, 1999 Share Posted March 26, 1999 I agree, it sounds as if you are not developing the print for long enough. You should find out how long it takes before no more changes occur. This might be, say, 2 minutes. Then add another 30 seconds, and always develop for this length of time (say, two-and-a-half minutes). <p> If you then find that blacks and whites are still both grey, you could use a higher contrast grade of paper (or change the filters if you are using variable contrast). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg_brosnan Posted March 26, 1999 Author Share Posted March 26, 1999 Thanks for the advice both of you - just one thing though - if my whites are grey, then surely leaving them in the developer longer would only make them darker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_white1 Posted March 26, 1999 Share Posted March 26, 1999 Maybe you should test your safelight or try an exposure test and print without a safelight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony_brent Posted March 26, 1999 Share Posted March 26, 1999 The comment about possible safelight fog is very pertinent when you are getting grey where you want white. To see if your safelight is fogging your paper, put several coins on a sheet of paper and leave it exposed to the safelight for 5 to 10 minutes. Develop and fix the paper normally. any fogging will show up as white circles on a grey backdrop. If your safelights check out OK, and you are mixing your developer as recommended by the mfgr (as a starting point) you might want to make some contact sheets which are keyed to just maximum black in the areas with no neg over them. Fred Picker gives some good advice and instruction on how to do this in Zone VI manual. Once you have made a "proper" contact sheet, you can evaluate your film developing, and/or paper contrast needs.E mail me for more on the last topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan_gibson Posted March 27, 1999 Share Posted March 27, 1999 If developing for longer (within reason) makes your whites get darker, you are definitely not developing for long enough. <p> It is quite possible (but I can't be sure) that you are underdeveloping (giving grey blacks), and overexposing (giving grey whites) to compensate. Can you tell us how what your developer is, and long you develop for? <p> There are indeed other possible causes, such as unsafe 'safe' lights, flare in the enlarger, etc, but the first step is to get the development right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel_smith Posted March 29, 1999 Share Posted March 29, 1999 I would agree with everyone saying that you should 1st work out how long a print needs to stay in the developer to ensure full blacks. I would take a small piece of paper (say 4" * 5") and expose under the enlarger (covering half up with a piece of card) for something like 30secs with the lens wide open, this should ensure enough exposure for solid black and hopefully still vivid white on the unexposed portion. Perform some tests as described by the other posters to ensure your papers fully developed and not fogged (either by the safelight or in the packet, which can happen if it's real old or someones accidently opened it). Another telltale sign that you're fishing the prints out of the developer too early is 'tong' imprints on the print. <p> Something, no-one has mentioned is the contrast of your negatives. If their muddy (ie. no contrast) then it will be difficult to get whites and blacks on the print at the same time. You'll either have whites with greys or greys with blacks. As Alan(?) said, what's the details on your paper? Are you printing on grade 5 and this is still happening or are you printing on grade 2? <p> Nige. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg_brosnan Posted March 29, 1999 Author Share Posted March 29, 1999 Thanks for the tips everyone. Regarding paper, chemicals - I'm using Ilfospeed grade 2 with Dektol - Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel_smith Posted April 1, 1999 Share Posted April 1, 1999 just thought of another thing I don't think anyone mentioned, are you agitating the paper in the developer? If tray processing, you need to bump the tray every now and then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony_brookes1 Posted April 4, 1999 Share Posted April 4, 1999 Get a piece of developed film with no image on it and expose from this at your normal magnification. Close the enlarger lens say two stops. Then expose a piece of paper in steps of two seconds - so cover up 9/10ths first then 8/10 and so on. The first exposed section will be twenty seconds. See which exposure gives you full black. You then know that you will always get full black at that exposure in the very dark areas of a print. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian_parsley Posted April 5, 1999 Share Posted April 5, 1999 Many of the comments so far have focused on the negative development and paper exposure and development. Don't overlook the proper exposure of the film (I may have missed some references to this, but the long thread is difficult to keep up with.). If the film has been properly exposed (using the Zone system, or some less rigid, more practical variation) you will find that you have a lot more room for slight errors in the rest of the process. Therefore, I might suggest trouble shooting your photo system from the very beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charles_barbour Posted July 8, 1999 Share Posted July 8, 1999 These answers in total seem on the mark - fogged paper, improper exposure and/or not printing for maximum black time. There is an excellent book I would suggest that covers all of this and much more - "Mastering Black & White Photography" by Bernard Suess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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