Typical Leica photos, typical Leica look

[dennis_couvillion]

Predictable... <yaaaawn>

 

BTW, Brad, have you considered racquetball as a way of working off some of that aggression? ;>)

[Brad_]

The typical Dennis response when he can't address a point.

[al_kaplan1]

Yes, I get them all the time, and do my best to stay current and answer them to the best of my ability even though a search would most likely come up with the information most newbies are looking for. On the other hand a lot of folks know that I have a shelf or two of old Leica Manuals and other books on Leica going back to the 1930's, as well as a collection of Leitz catalogs, Leica instruction manuals, and promotional literature. This makes me a good source of esoteric information that some people don't feel is of enough general interest to post on the forum without being accused of fetishisms of the most perverse nature. Anyway, I do have a working email address.

[EricM]

I find it amusing Denis can at least recognize the disturbance he's partly responsible for. Although he claims there is a Leica look, I've yet to see it in his photos. It must be frustrating? Everything he's posted could have been shot on something else. Why? Because they're mostly shot at f8 or better ensuring focus. And the same with Grandpa Al, could have been shot on anything. No offence, but I think even a different system would help improve these peoples craft and results. It did for millions of others that migrated away from the rf world. But this is a place where peple enjoy using these cameras. And this enjoyment often causes poeple to kid themselves into beliefs, does it not? I definately believe there is a quality to Leica glass. Especially wide open. Our <u><a href=" http://www.cabophoto.com/MEX.htm">Carsten Bockermann</a></u> has some great shots wide open in this page, and they have a distinguishing Leica look, to me. But only the wide open ones where this glass excels. The rest could have been on anything. And i think this so called look is rare to find, or, at least on this forum. I have different camera makes, and especially in 6x6, you can tell different glass. Old school photog's used to choose film with glass, or manufacture, for different reasons and subjects. Sometimes it was a Pentax 67 day on blah blah film, sometimes it was a 'Blad on this film. So, warranted, the glass can make a distinguishing feature. But for rf versues slr? Nah. The first wonderful pic that kicked this thread off definitely has a noctilux look. As distinguishable as a tilt and shift shot. But who cares?

[jeremy_tok]

Oh I'm certain post-processing can give you any look you want, even simulate the bokeh of a Noctilux. It's not much different from engineers developing "manufactured" marble, printed wood verneers or cultured pearls. You'd never know the difference.

[dennis_couvillion]

"Although he claims there is a Leica look, I've yet to see it in his photos. It must be frustrating?"

 

Eric:

 

LOL... Why would that be frustrating? I often shoot purposely stopped down and pre-focused.

 

But I'll tell you what, come look at the sharpness of some of my 16x20 wet prints shot stopped down on Leica glass and compare them to comparable Nikon, Canon or Olympus lenses. I'll bet the Leica images are usually sharper and have more pop. Oh, sorry... there I go again talking like an elitist Leica-gear snob. LOL... Good try, though... ;>)

[belledeux diana]

this is interesting....group and camera talk...great....so let's say Brad is working out some karma...makes sense, right...sounds right, huh? Okay, and he's chosen to do his gig here....it seems.....let's work with him, (as a "group") or well, ....anybody knows what happens at the end of "Clan of The Cave Bears"......

 

and Brad is not 74 or whatever he said.....somehow I forgot how...I Googled him and found a photo.....he's about 30-40 I guess, a little "chubby"...dark hair.....and I think from California......

[Brad_]

<I>Okay, and he's chosen to do his gig here....it seems.....let's work with him,...</i><P>

 

Why so patronizing? I've been posting here for around three years.

[Brad_]

Belle's comment is an excellent example of what's wrong. No information added to the

discussion, just a jab to either insult or patronize - probably to get attention.

[dennis_couvillion]

Belle, maybe we could conduct a print sale to raise money to buy Brad a sense of humor. ;>)

[Brad_]

<I>Brad, have you considered racquetball as a way of working off some of that aggression?

</I><P>

 

Yes, Dennis, my 10:23AM post that you're referring to is just dripping with aggression.

Consider understanding what "projection" is.

[ray .]

The Leica look re focus or non-focus is bull. Who made up this

rule anyway? Winogrand used hyperfocal focus where virtually

everything is in focus, and so have lots of other street and pj

photographers using Leicas. The first time I ever heard of a

Noctilux was on this forum. So that's the Leica look too. In other

words, the look of the photograph is 99% the responsibility of the

photographer, and whatever he wants to make it.

[ray .]

I've never heard anything or read anything from the moderators of

this forum stating that people posting here had to have a

particular opinion about Leicas, or that they have to own or use

one, or aspire to own or use one. One time Al had a problem

with someone posting a topic on Edward Weston here. It's as if

some people using Leicas think their photography exists in a

bubble and is separate and isolated from all other photography.

Good for them, but that narrow minded notion of photography

isn't protected here. This is a discussion group, an internet

forum. It isn't a private little Leica club where Leica people meet

in each other's houses.

[ray .]

...Even so, it's cool when threads like this catch fire and we all

can hang out together and bond and get at each other's throats.

Just like the good old days, and even Travis chiming in from the

outside. Privately, I think Brad and Dennis really love each other;

they just don't want anyone else to know.

[dennis_couvillion]

Ray, I agree. And how many street shooters do you know who, before they snap the shutter, are thinking, "Okay, I wanna make this look like a Leica shot..."? Do you do that? I don't...

 

Some of this stuff is just plain silly. But there are certain styles and looks (sometimes hard to describe or define) that are associated with Leica M cameras and lenses, regardless whether some people subscribe to that, use those terms or not. To me, that's pretty harmless stuff... One thing that has come out of this thread, though, is that people who have used Leica lenses find that under certain conditions, certain Leica lenses may produce certain distinctive looks.

 

"Leica look"... "Leica style"... It's all semantics... trying to describe or define what we see.

 

The statement that "this shot could have been taken with any camera" has become just as tired (and tiresome) as "it's the photographer not the camera". What difference does it make if somebody thinks a shot has certain distinctive Leica features? Or does every statement about Leica have to be challenged by some as though the poster has threatened the exitence of civilization? Jeeez... this stuff is silly.

[dennis_couvillion]

"I think Brad and Dennis really love each other; they just don't want anyone else to know."

 

Ray, I really, really like Brad... but sometimes I think Brad doesn't like me. <sigh> ;>)

[claudia__]

2 observations....

 

first, Leica is a cult camera, like it or not and so this forum reflects all the baggage that comes with cult followings.

 

second, Brad really is into debating versus commenting and so has an eagle eye for what he sees as false "information." but information is not always as interesting or entertaining as the more fictional, folk loric aspects of photography.

 

 

i have to drag myself away from this and go sailing now (~_")

[dennis_couvillion]

"Ray, I agree."

 

I was referring to your remarks about focus vs. non-focus...

 

Let me add something to my remarks about semantics. Some people look at the actions of a certain sitting U.S. President and say "He's steadfast and resolute." Others look at the same actions and say "He's thick-headedly stubborn."

 

Some people look at a picture and say "I see things that I associate with Leica shooting or Leica lenses." Others may say "This could have been taken with any camera."

 

It's all a matter of perspective and opinion.

[jtdnyc]

For purposes of this discussion, I think it might be worthwhile to distinguish "Leica quality" from "Leica look."

 

In my mind (if nowhere else) "Leica quality" has to do with technical aspects, such as resolution and contrast, and most especially performance at wide apertures; while "Leica look" has to do with the aesthetic approach fostered by the strengths and limitations of the rangefinder system.

 

It seems to me that someone could accept that Leica has an edge in quality yet deny the existence of a distinctive Leica look; or deny the former and accept the latter; or deny both; or accept both.

 

Someone could also acknowledge that the distinguishing characteristics of the Leica rangefinder system lead to differences in Leica working methods, whether there's a difference in the final image or not. (Even if there were no distinctive Leica quality or look, I would continue to use Leica Ms for the same reason that some people choose to drive a stick shift. I've played with a friend's D70 and, for me, its just not as much fun to use as my MP.)

 

I think one of the problems with the discussion thus far is that there isn?t even a consensus on what we?re disagreeing about.

 

That often leads to lots of yelling.

[barefoot]

I had that 'ugh 'effner in the back of me cab once. I picked 'im up along wiv a couple of 'is

associates (if yer know what i mean guv) outside the club on park lane. 'Ad to drive the ol'

bugger to a posh house in 'ertfordshire for a board meeting (if yer know what i mean guv).

Took me 3 bleedin' ow-ers, traffic was murder. When we got there, i was hoping e'd invite me

in for a bit of argy-bargy. Did he buggery. Old sod never even left me a tip.

[lee hamiel]

Wow ...

 

Tried to stay out of it but this thread took on a life of it's own.

 

Not a full moon tonight so perhaps people will chill a bit. A little bit. Still close to a full moon - we'll see ...

[o._i.]

Sorry for the lateness of the post, been off living life, shooting and selling and lost this thread. Brad is just another Leica wannabe with an axe to grind. It's not so much about deflating Leica's reputation as building his own ego. Looking back on his postings, he has not contributed anything really useful, just hatred of anything Leica.

[Brad_]

Hmmm...

 

Seems Owl must be a little desperate going back to a three month old post, just to get a tiny

caustic retort in. Why am I not surprised he has no photos...

[EricM]

that is kinda wierd isn't it?

[._._z]

Methinks some regular here found his old password for a sockpuppet account....