Using Tetenal C-41 Stabilizer

[robatsgh]

This is quite possibly a very silly question, but one I'm obliged to ask.

 

I'm transitioning from doing stictly black and white work to including

color slide and negative processes, basically because there are fewer

and fewer people I trust to do the work in a timely, proper, and

affordable fashion. My rollfilm has no digital substitute at this

point, even though I do scan everything after it's processed.

 

The Tetenal C-41 Rapid kit comes with all of 50ml of stabilizer for 5

liters of working solution (1+99). However, using stabilizer or rinse

aid in the tanks (I have a jobo with 25xx tanks and 2502 reels) is bad

mojo. Since the keeping properties of working-solution stabilizer are

so poor, and I'd need such a large amount to fill a tray enough to

submerge 120 stock, I'd basically use all the stabilizer before I got

through half the developer/blix.

 

So, any suggestions for how to properly use the stabilizer bath

off-processor and off-reel? This isn't a problem with E-6, as I'm

using the Kodak chemicals that just use a rinse aid at the end and

move the dye stabilizer to the pre-bleach conditioner, and can mix up

any quantity of photo-flo I need.

 

Thanks, all.

[rowland_mowrey]

Rob;

 

The stabilzer does not go bad rapidly. It is a mixture of formalin and photo flo itself. The newer Kodak stabilzers are a mixture of photo flo and a new proprietary stabilzer.

 

If you go into a photo flo bath after any color final rinse or stabilzer, you run the risk of degrading the stability of your images. This is true of E6 or C41.

 

Ron Mowrey

[discpad]

Rob, you'll do a LOT better if you use separate bleach and fix, especially the Kodak Flexicolor stuff. Believe it or not, it's also quite inexpensive in quantity.

 

Fixer concentrate to make 25 gallons is all of $32.95, and it will work for E-6 & B&W as well: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=27599&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

 

Also, the 5 gallon (19 liter) Kodak color developer package:

http://www.adorama.com/KKFCDR5G.html is all of $26.50 [Link at B&H:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=27599&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation ]

 

Bleach is something you'll need to decide on the quantity, but you can use regenerator:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=27568&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

 

All B&H color negative film chemistry:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=breadCrumb&A=search&Q=&ci=582

 

Adorama doesn't have the array of chemistry as B&H; but they WILL ship HazMat, which B&H won't: They are deathly afraid because of the New York "cradle to grave" laws.

 

 

Getting back to your original question, take a look at "Dye stability in C-41 & E-6" at:

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00FuCx

which will answer most all your questions. Basically, if you have formaldehyde (formalin) in your last bath for both E-6 & C-41, you're covered: Most all of the work by Kodak and Fuji in the last decade has been to get rid of formaldehyde for odor & health reasons. If you have a friend who works in a funeral home or hospital, they can get you a quart bottle, which will last quite a while.

 

Cheers! Dan

[robatsgh]

Ok - a few follow up questions.

 

Ron - when you say that stabilizer doesn't degrade rapidly, is that in concentrate or working solution form? IOW, can I mix up a liter of stabilizer bath and keep it around for longer than a day or so to reuse?

[robatsgh]

Another question - if I want to mix my own stabilizer/final rinse, can I use PhotoFlo/Ilfotol surfactant combined with some proportion of standard 37% formalin (readily available from aquarium suppliers)? If so, how much formalin per liter is necessary?

[discpad]

Rob, you need about 1% in the solution, so that's 10ml/37% which is about 28 ml/L, or 1 ounce... I generally use 2%.

 

Here's a shortcut: A 35mm film canister holds 1 oz!

[robatsgh]

Great - thanks all for the help. I knew that I'd be able to get a straight answer here.

[discpad]

Rob, I didn't know 37% formalin was available at aquarium supply stores, either... I need to swing by to get new air stones for my bleach tanks, anyway!

 

Watch the actual concentrations, though... From:

http://www.ecu.edu/oehs/HazWaste/formalin.htm

 

 

Are formaldehyde and formalin the same substance?

 

 

Formaldehyde, in its basic form, is a gas. Most people think of formaldehyde as a liquid. The liquid is actually a mixture of formaldehyde gas and water. The most common concentration used is a 37% solution. That solution contains 37 grams of formaldehyde gas to 100 ml of solution. Formaldehyde solution will polymerize. To prevent polymerization of formaldehyde solution, about 10 - 15% of methyl alcohol is added. It is the addition of methyl alcohol that causes the substance to be called formalin as opposed to formaldehyde.

 

 

We have occasionally encountered some confusion about the difference between formaldehyde and formalin. This is an understandable problem, since the terms are sometimes used interchangeably. It is incorrect to use the two words this way. The concentrations of chemical fixative that the two names represent are quite different. A fixative labeled as 10% buffered formalin is actually only a 4% solution of formaldehyde. This is because 10% buffered formalin is an example of old-time histologist's jargon describing a 10% solution made from a stock bottle of 37-40% formaldehyde (or more precisely: a 3.7-4% solution of formaldehyde).

[discpad]

<p>Also, come to think of it, you don't need to use Photo-flo as a surfactant: Throw in some 70% isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol, about a pint bottle per gallon.

 

 

<p>Here's a basic recipe for 4 liters: 1 gallon distilled water, 4 ozs 37% formalin, one pint rubbing alcohol, mixed in a 4 liter wine jug. Or, pour off 20 ozs of distilled water from a gallon jug, add formalin & rubbing alcohol, and mix.

 

 

<p>What I use is a one gallon polyethylene deli container with a snap lid. Then, i just pull the film off the racks or reels and drop them in. I don't recommend trays because of the odor.

[rowland_mowrey]

Rob;

 

Neither the Fuji nor Kodak stabilzers go bad as the concentrate and when diluted and unused they do not go bad either.

 

If used, then contamination can cause deterioration of stabilzers, but you can see this in the form of 'slugs' or threadlike 'things' in suspension in the stabilzer. This is either bacteria or bits of gelatin that come off in the stabilzer and can cause problems. If bacteria (or mold or fungus) it indicates that the formalin content is deteriorating through use or contamination.

 

You can mix all stabilzers up in small quantities for immediate use without harm.

 

Ron Mowrey