xtol 1+3

[sean_ofiain]

I have been processing tri-x in xtol diluted 1+3 for some time and have been happy with the results. However when I mentioned this to a colleague, they expressed concern saying that Kodak didn't recomend using dilutions greater than 1+1. Whilst I am happy to continue with my normal practise (if it aint broke, don't fix it), I am curious to find out more. Does anyone have any information on this and has anyone experienced any problems with xtol at 1+3.

[pete_caluori]

Greetings,

 

<p>

 

As you say "if it aint broke, don't fix it." I think Kodak stopped

recommending XTOL @ 1:3 because too may people were using too little

chemistry and getting underdevelopment. As long as you use the

proper amount of chemistry per volume of film, you will continue to

get properly developed negatives.

 

<p>

 

Regards,

[dan_smith]

"As long as you use the proper amount of chemistry per volume of

film, you will continue to get properly developed negatives."

 

<p>

 

That is until you experience "The dreaded Xtol failure". Happens

suddenly... the developer just doesn't work. No rhyme or reason and

certainly not because you used too little stock in the dilution. I

used 200ml stock per 8x10 film unit & still got hit with it.

 

<p>

 

The Yellow Peril recommending against 1:3 has more to do with Xtol's

reaction to chlorine, iron, calcium and hard water than more folks

using less than the recommended 100ml per 8x10 film unit.

[john_stockdale2]

Is the dreaded Xtol failure still happening? It hasn't happened to

me, but I decided to use 1+1 instead of 1+3 following some advice

somewhere that it would reduce the risk. It appears to occur at

random to people who have not had previous trouble, which would

probably eliminate water quality issues. Has it happened to anyone

out there recently? Any correlations with anything identifiable?

[silverhalide1949]

I haven't had XTOL failure since 1999. I now store my mixed XTOL in 8oz dark brown bottles and it lasts several months (about the same as D-76). I've always used the 1:1 dilution and the 1 ltr packets.

[jon_porter]

The darkroom salesman at my local camera store suspected that

incomplete mixing of part A was causing the sporatic failure in the

develper. He called Kodak to find out how hot the water could be in

mixing the developer and was told there was no restriction on the

upward temperature. So if I decide to give Xtol another chance I'll

mix it at the highest temp I can get from my tap water, letting part

A sit for a few minutes after thoroughly mixing it. On the other

hand, the results I'm getting from DD-X look just like those I got

with Xtol (when it worked), plus it comes as a liquid and has been

100% reliable.

[brian_hinther2]

I'd be interested to know if anyone using distilled water had been

hit by the dreaded XTOL failure, especially if hard tap water figures

into the equation.

 

<p>

 

By the way, I e-mailed Kodak after noticing the XTOL package said to

mix with water between 65º and 85º. I was told that Vitamin C is

sensitive to heat and 85º should be the upper limit.

[john_hicks]

> distilled water

 

<p>

 

Yep, it got me.

[jon_porter]

I had failures (and success) with both distilled and tap water and

with all three dilutions. Going on the hypothesis that I wasn't

adequately mixing part A, since I mixed it in 68 to 70 degree water,

I'll try mixing it much more rigorously at 85 degrees with the next

pack of Xtol.

[tim_brown5]

I've been using Xtol for several years now without failure. I mix it

at 80 deg. in distilled water and store it in full clear 16oz glass

and 64oz plastic bottles for up to 6 months. I mix 5 liter batches. I

dilute it to 1+2 for use.

[ed_hurst]

Anyone know of where you can get information on times for Xtol

diluted at 1:3 (as Kodak no longer publish them)? Even if you can

get the old information, this won't include times for the NEW Ilford

Delta 400. Any information on this?

[mike_watkins1]

You probably already know of the 'Massive Dev Chart'

http://www.digitaltruth.com/photo/devchart.html - has xtol 1:3

dilution times for a number of films, but, alas, not for Delta 400

(new).

 

<p>

 

I've been using Microdol-X for Delta 400 rated at EI 320 and I like

it, a lot.

[ann_c_lancy2]

i agree with one of the other statements "if it ain't broken" don't

fix. I have been using Xtol 1 :3 with my students off and on for

sometime (depends on film type). No problems, however, i do use a

magnetic stirrer for mixing all chemicals and I have been thinking

perhaps that may help reduce problems. Also, we also mix one liter of

solution, even if only one roll of film is being processed.

[dan_smith]

Xtol can be a very nice developer. But having had 3 failures, with

both tap water & distilled water and at different dilutions I no

longer take the chance that negatives I have worked hard to get come

out blank.

To those who like the one litre packets you better stock up quickly

as The Yellow Godfather is discontinuing them.

Those who call Kodak & get answers might try doing so at various

times & then comparing the differing answers. You don't always get

the same information twice in a row. Same question...different

answers. Not exactly confidence inspiring, but there is always the

possibility some are not asking the same question or that the answer

is couched with qualifiers that the questioner doesn't pay attention

to.

Xtol can be a really nice developer but I don't chance the failures.

And for those who are sure we who have had failures are poor darkroom

workers, I measure the amount of chemistry carefully, even to the

point of marking the bottles with each use to keep track of the

mixing variables. Xtol for me has been an exercise much like driving.

A drunk is out there on the road & the fact he didn't get me this

time is no indication he didn't hit someone else. So I have solved

the Xtol failure problem with a simple solution... Ilford & Agfa make

some nice products.

[squareframe]

the dreaded Xtol failure is not something that is related to

oxidation, temperature, stirring, mixing, or anything of a

predictable nature. my experience, and of others I am led to believe,

is that you can successfully develop a roll of film, and the next

day, using the same batch, same film type, same conditions, find

yourself with severe underdevelopment. when Xtol behaves, it is very,

very good.

[john_stockdale2]

Daniel: I'm sorry I have nothing to add, but if it is not dependent

on "oxidation, temperature, stirring, mixing, or anything of a

predictable nature", i can't help thinking that it depends on

something else, either alone or in an interaction with some of the

above factors. All we have to do is find what it is.

[david_vogt]

I used Xtol 1:3 for several years with great results (I've never

experienced Xtol failure). However, what I did experience

(starting in the summer of year 2000) was Xtol 1:3 "trashing" my

negatives. I started getting little bits of what looked like metal

flakes all over my 35mm TMX negatives. I was mixing the Xtol in

distilled water and I am very careful with my film processing, so I

figured it was a problem either the film or developer. I called

professional support at Kodak and they said the problem was the 1:3

dilution and if I used it straight or at 1:1 I wouldn't have this

problem anymore. I never went back. My bad experience with Xtol cost

me days of negatives and I was/am afraid it will happen again.