Switch from Compact Flash to Secure Digital Cards?

[cocopico]

I was disappointed to see that the new D80 uses secure digital, rather than

compact flash, memory cards. Does anyone know whether this represents a move on

Nikon's part to switch all their new cameras to this format? I have a D70s and

I need a backup camera, so I thought the D80 would be a good primary camera and

my D70s could become the backup. The incompatibility of the memory cards,

though, makes that impractical to me. I've always used Nikon and liked the fact

that they generally make a commitment to compatibility, but the switch to a

different memory card format is troubling. The D200 uses CF cards, but the D50

uses SD. The D70s uses CF, but the D80 uses SD. What gives?

[phule]

<<Does anyone know whether this represents a move on Nikon's part to switch all their new cameras to this format?>>

 

Only what they consider to be "consumer" cameras.

[phule]

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/nikond80/page4.asp

[bwcombs]

I think that the move is to SD format. Smaller, better economics, reliability and fewer pins to

go haywire, make it a more sensible choice. I felt the same way you did initially, but it makes

sense from a manufacturer's point of view.

[klix]

It is the direction that the whole industry is headed, with good reason. I foresee higher sales of SD->CF card adapters.

 

KL

[ShunCheung]

The SD card issue has already been discussed to a great extend in this thread:

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00HaK6

 

I like the anology of 3.5" floppy replacing the old 5.25" ones in the early 1990's. Whether SD will eventually replace all CF is probably too early to tell, but sometimes you just have to make progress rather than holding onto technology that is gradually getting out of date.

[phule]

<<I like the anology of 3.5" floppy replacing the old 5.25" ones in the early 1990's.>>

 

That analogy fails because 3.5" floppy disks provided an increase in capacity whereas there is no capacity benefit to SD, just a decrease in size.

[ShunCheung]

3.5" floppies have a hard shell and is therefore more durable. Likewise, SD cards do not use the vulnerable connector pins. Is that a big big deal, probably not, as I have never had any CF card failure in the 4 years I have been shooting digital. However, I know that if that happens, my DSLR is immediately and completely disabled. Unfortunately, that is not the type of failure that I can live with for a little while and get my camera fixed at my convenience.

 

Capacity-wise, CF used to have higher capacity. Now there are plenty of 2G, 4G SD, that advantage for CF is gone. And that maybe why we'll gradually see SD taking over.

[fourfa]

I'd prefer SD to CF in all cases, except for the fact that I already have CF

[phule]

For the record: CF goes up to 8GB now whereas SD is still at 4.

[leicaglow]

But both formats have been around for some time. It doesn't seem like one is overtaking the other. I like the SD format because it's easy to get in and out of tight slots with the spring action, but the CF is easier to handle for its size, and less likely to get lost. It's a bit of a pain because my D200 uses CF and D50 backup uses SD. On the other hand, I don't get them confused.

[ShunCheung]

Rob, 4G is more than sufficient for most applications; that represents 200 RAW images on my D2X. It is like mega pixels. When you have 8 to 10MP, it is more than sufficient for most people. That is precisely why the pixel race is pretty much over and we may be witnessing the CF -> SD transition now.

[michaelbrochstein]

It would be nice if Nikon and Canon (who effectively own the DSLR market) would at some point indicate future direction in this area. Then at least we could plan our memory card purchases.

 

As cards get faster and larger in capacity each year, most us will upgrade them every few years anyway so knowing this can lead to a smooth transition and not a sudden unexpected large purchae of memory cards (three years ago I bought a set of 32x 1GB CF cards and this year I bought a set of much much faster 4GB CF cards due to larger file sizes and speed).

 

I am agnostic re: CF versus SD cards but as I now own 19GB of CF, I am partial to it.

 

Just my two cents!

[phule]

<<4G is more than sufficient for most applications>>

 

Regardless of your needs, the capacity advantage still goes to CF. And yes, while 8GB cards are more likely to be found in specialized areas (including MF backs) it still is a choice that consumers and professionals have. The SD-HC standard is still new enough that most cameras cannot support it without a firmware upgrade.

 

The only advantage SD offers is in physical size. Camera manufactures have used the small size to decrease the size of their point and shoots. As consumers buying cameras within the past two years or so move to DSLRs they are more likely to have SD cards than CF cards.

 

It is a decision driven by market forces, not by any advantage of one over the other, aside from physical size.

 

I would propose that the likelyhood of you bending a pin with CF cards is equal to the likelyhood of you losing an SD card: slim but possible.

[mawz]

SD has a major advantage in that it is the defacto standard for consumer electronics, espcially PDA's and phones. At this point CF is essentially a camera-only technology (As is xD) with SD and miniSD prevailing elsewhere.

 

SD is also mechanically superior to CF. It's smaller, with simpler construction and a greatly superior electrical interface design.

 

I'd also expect to see SD capacity quickly match CF now that the long-delayed SDHC spec has finally been ratified. SDHC is only a firmware update for anything recent so expect to see support become widespread quickly.

 

Pro bodies will likely remain CF for the forseeable future, although dual-format bodies like the Canon 1DsmkII and 1DmkIIN will probably be more common. Consumer bodies will probably switch to SD except for Olympus which is unfortunately wedded to the poor xD format and Sony which has its own proprietary MemoryStick. Pentax is entirely SD now (which means Samsung as well), Panasonic has announced it will be SD-only with its DSLR's (which means the Leica-rebadged DMC-L1 that everybody knows is on the way will be SD as well). I expect the Rebel XT replacement will be SD as well.

[david_h._hartman]

Jeff,<br>

<br>

The long term plan is to make memory modules for professional

DSLR(s) so small that we cant find where we put them. It

will take discipline on the part of the photographer to deal with

these as the photographer will need to put the micro memory

module in a larger protective case just to find them. Maybe the

case could have a homing device so we can call them

with our cell phones. You know, the way women find their cell

phones when they drop it into their purse ;) You think Im

kidding, right? No, true experience.<br>

<br>

OK, what about CF cards. The pins are a weakness in the design,

maybe not a grievous one but a weakness. SD cards are smaller

than Id like, hens the minor sarcasm above (and following).

Just pray to E Pluribus Unum that memory modules dont get

so small that special tools and low power binocular microscopes

are required to switch cards. I dont want primary memory

that is not user serviceable.<br>

<br>

Best,<br>

<br>

Dave Hartman.

[phule]

<<SD has a major advantage in that it is the defacto standard for consumer electronics, espcially PDA's and phones. >>

 

Tell that to everyone buying microSD and miniSD cards and their corresponding adapters. The market place is muddled with "standards."

[bill_force]

The price of memory cards has dropped faster than Bill Clinton's drawers, so not a big factor.

Secondly, the smaller SD cards allow the manufacture to reduce the size of the camera marginally and if they use this saved space to improve the viewfinder, I'm all for it.

[joshodonnell]

I don't know if this idea has any merit or not... But it has crossed my mind that Nikon put the SD in the D80 entice D50 owners to upgrade to the D80, while D70s users who already have the compact flash cards will be more tempted to upgrade to the higher priced D200 so they don't have to spend more $$$ on SD cards... I don't know if that makes any sense or not.

[alex_j]

<<That analogy fails because 3.5" floppy disks provided an increase in capacity whereas there is no capacity benefit to SD >>

<p>

But the original 3.5" floppies in the Mac had less capacity than 5.25" and the computer industry could have created a larger capacity 5.25" floppy if they wanted to. This would have been reasonably easy considering the much greater surface area of the 5.25" floppy disk.

<p>

But they didn't create a larger capacity 5.25" floppy... they went to the 3.5" standard and the 5.25" media became obsolete.

<p>

Here is the Panasonic SD Memory Card Roadmap.<br>

<a href="http://panasonic.com.au/content/library/files/F001562.pdf">http://panasonic.com.au/content/library/files/F001562.pdf</a>

<p>

So when there are 8GB and 16GB SD cards (and maybe 32GB), will people still want CF because CF can potentially give 32GB or maybe 64GB?

<p>

If we look into our crystal ball for the next 18 months, I think we can see the following...

<p>

* Most Digicams use SD (already happened) so SD market reduced in size.<br>

* D70s discontinued, so only Pro Nikon DSLR (and semi-pro D200) use Compact Flash.<br>

* Canon 350D replacement uses SD... just like the Canon Digicams that the potential 350D buyers already own.<br>

* Canon continue to support both CF and CD in their D1 cameras.<br>

* Nikon do the same in the D3.<br>

* CF market is Pro DSLR only, plus extra cards for existing cameras, so costs of CF stay high, while SD continue to reduce in price.<br>

* Manufacturers begin to reduce investment in CF R&D, so while larger sizes of CF are technically possible, they might not be produced.<br>

* Nikon plan D200 replacement. The longer this takes to arrive, the more likely it is to use SD memory.

<p>

[ShunCheung]

I just learned from another forum that interestingly, according to Rob Galbraith's tests on Canon's 1D Mark IIn, which can use both CF and SD cards, SD has a faster write speed. In fact, a SanDisk Extreme III SD and even an Ultra II SD out-perform an Extreme IV CF:

 

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=6007-8200

 

For all practical purposes, the D80 replaces the D70s. Therefore, consumer-level Nikon DSLRs are now SD based. We'll see how the pro-level migrates. I am still hoping that the successors to the D2 series will use both as the pro-level Canon's do.

 

Personally, I have about 15G in CF card capacity. At the most I might add another 4G. But for the longer run, any further investment in CF cards could potentially be money down the drain. It is like any other electronic product: "standards" evolove, prices decrease and performance improve. I would get enough to get by, but unless your money is burning a hole in your wallet, there is no point to waste money on excessive items that depreciate and get out of date quickly.

[paul_willis1]

mwave (www.mwave.com) now has an 8GB SD card (TRANSCEND TS8GSDHC) for $102 (plus tax/shipping) - should be in stock on January 2. Transcend should have their 16GB card out sometime this year also.

 

Though most in the forum might not consider this more than a "throw away" camera, Norcent has a 10MP "A" series digital camera for about $170-190 (4compuelectron.com or heartlandamerica.com). Nikon it's not, but it gives you a cheap alternative to having to take the D80 out at the beach.

 

Whether or not we lament the switch from CF to SD (or smaller), it appears manufacturers will always tend to follow trends of the cash-buying public when it comes to product availability, and with the popularity of SD in current products - and SD availability off the shelf - we'll probably be buying them for the next couple of years, until the "next" storage medium comes along. I'll just stack up my CF cards as backup media for awhile, along side my old MMC cards and 3.5" HDD's.