Re: 35mm HIE Problem

[johnnycake_.1]

(Internal photo.net reference http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00HYcN&tag=)

 

I don't want this problem to be lost.

[wickedmartini]

Possibly differential drying marks. The emulsion dries at an uneven rate and produces areas where the emulsion dries down thinner than surrounding portions. When printed, that area transmits light more efficiently and then produces higher (darker) density. If you throw the negs on a light box and loupe them up, the marks usually have pretty defined edges. Hope that helps.

[timsumma]

You know Kodak has the most daft PR people working in the universe. Policy is shoot the customer as often in the foot as possible.

 

The problem of pinholes in the emulsion is related to a piece of Voodoo about HS Infrared films. (1): You MUST used a standard Acetic Acid Stop Bath, no you don�t, look it up in a manual, most people get all confused with the 3:7 dilution from 28% Acetic Acid stock. (2): You MUST immerse the film in the bath for FIVE minutes with agitation, ten minutes won�t hurt. I actual got this information from the research arm of Kodak. They are amazed no one seems to know this about the film, gee I wonder why! But guess what, they know it works bit no one has any verifiable information as to WHY this fact is true, it is just standard practice. I do exactly this with all the Kodak IR films that I have used (35mm and 4X5) for years and have NEVER had any trouble with the film. When students showed me this problem I explained and they did as I explained and the problem was also gone. Try it and it should work.

 

By the way, the black partial spots can also occur due to TWO other causes. If there are rings about the spots this is due to the presents of residual wetting agent on the processing gear. If the spots are pure through to the emulsion then there is a possibility of residual fixer contamination on the processing gear. If you use stainless steel processing gear it is a good practice to wash it in vary hot water every once in a while to get it back to new quality.

[david_elden]

I have occasionally (less than 1 roll in 10) seen the exact same spots as the original poster so I've been waiting for the answre here, I suspected moisture condensation since i used the film rather quickly on a hot & humid day right out of the refrigerator but I wasn't really sure.

The recommendation to use a longer stop bath time doesn't make any chemical sense to me but since the worst it can do is waste some time I'll try it next time I dev HIE, as the poster implied there may be some unique behaviours of HIE that are not well understood outside of Kodak labs.

To be honest none of the other explanations appear very plausible but thanks to everyone for thinking about it.

[x-ray]

I've had the same exact problem a few years ago. It turned out to be air bubbles during developement. I've always run the film in HC-110 and never had them before. I had a major problem with both fuji 1600 and HIE at that time but not other films. For some reason there seemed to be more air disolved in the water that summer. I've never had the problem since.

[fotofundi]

Difficult to be sure without inspecting the negatives but they do look like drying marks. Where was the film hung to dry? If in a bathroom is it possible someone used a shower head nearby? - the multitude of small spots look like tiny water droplets may have settled on the film before it was fully dry.

[johnnycake_.1]

Actually, all of my film is hung to dry in the same dehumidified room. I doubt they are

drying spots.

 

However, the discussion has got me thinking about refrigerated IR film and its'

equilibration/stabilization prior to use. I store my film in the refrigerator and I always let

conventional film stabilize at room temperature before I use it. I remove it from the box

and the plastic container. With HIE there is the additional requirement that the film can be

removed from the plastic container only in "complete darkness," consequently I "stabilize"

my HIE in the plastic container. I am not certain how much time is necessary for HIE in the

plastic container to reach equilibrium with the environment but I generally wait at least an

hour or more. Of course, that initial equilibration occurs indoors in an air-conditioned

environment and IR photography generally occurs outdoors so another equilibration must

occur. Could the spots be water condensation on the film created because one has moved

from an air-conditioned environment to a humid outdoors? Consider this observation: I

wear glasses and sometimes, as I leave an air-conditioned interior to go outdoors on a

humid day, my glasses will fog. Could the same phenomenon be occurring in the camera

and on the film? I doubt it but I would be interested in other thoughts.

[hilander]

Okay, so I shot roll, loaded half of it in one tank, the other half in another tank. Processed

with Rodinal for 10 minutes. Used a water stop bath in one tank and an acid stop in the

other. Both stops were for 7.5 minutes (following Tim Summa's advice for at least a 5 minute

stop). It made no difference, the spots are still there. The conclusion: it's just damaged HIE,

at least the brick I have.<div></div>

[hilander]

<div></div>

[johnnycake_.1]

blankety-blank-blank..... blankety-blank.

 

(and you can "quote" me)

 

So. Film problem..... ("hi!, Kodak, you... )

 

Any ideas about what "we" should do?

[hilander]

Johnnycake,

I'm going to try some double and triple exposures with some of this film. Might get some

happy accidents. I don't know what else to do with it.

 

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[david_elden]

Had the pinhole problem on 2 more rolls of HIE 35mm recently. One I tried water stop & pre-wetting. Had no beneficial effect.

Called Kodak. Said acid stop would not be problem (I use D76, non-carbonate developer according to them).

K said the em numbers I was using had not generated any other pinhole complaints but suggested that storage at other than subambient temps. could lead to some interaction between the film base rear surface and the emulsion surface that is in contact with it. The rolls in question had had a month or two outside the cold storage and been around the Caribbean so, at least in my case, this is a plausible explanation. FTR I just ran a workshop on IR photography, the students exposed and processed 12 rolls of HIE bought within the last day or two and processed a day after shooting: no pinholes.

Hope this helps someone.

PS I'm sending some samples to Kodak for their comments.