M6 classic versus M6 TTL

[fju]

I'm sure this has been asked a million times but I did a search and could not find it. I have

two questions.

 

1) For someone buying there first Leica, and who will never ever use a flash, which is the

better body? Which is better built, quieter, etc...

 

2) For someone who will be using a 50mm lens and nothing else, what is a better choice,

the 0.85 or a .72 with magnifier which turns it into a 0.9? In other words, is the magnifier

well regarded on this forum and does it really improve focusing accuracy?

 

TIA

[mark-j]

Francisco: Finding anything in the archives is difficult unless you use the correct words. I have M6 0.72 and 0.85, both classic. Wearing glasses I am unable to see the 35 framelines in the 0.85 or the 28 or 35 in the 0.72. I would opt for the 0.72 for a basic choice. The flash is another issue. The M6TTL is dependent on the batteries for the flash functions. The classic is not. Both cameras will shoot without batteries in the event they die. The TTL has TTL flash circuitry that only works automatically with a few expensive flash units. Either camera works will work well with a generic flash and you can use the auto features of most flash units with either camera. I do not have a problem with focusing accuracy with either camera. The magnifier will have to wait for others to weigh in on.

 

Cheers.

[james mitchell dc]

There's no reason for a magnifier (which I do have and use with 90 and 135 lenses) for a 50mm. A 50 works very well with either a .72 or a .85 viewfinder. I like to use the 50 2.8 with my M6 .72 and my M2 .72 and my 50 2.0 with my M3s, which have the .91 finders--if only because of the focusing accuracy. But I've never used the magnifier on a body with a 50mm lens. There's really no reason to do that.

 

A little practice with a flash for either the M6 classic or TTL will reveal that they are both very easy to use. I use flash so rarely that I usually choose the M6TTL, as after one shot the camera and flash are working like a computer that doesn't need any help.

[daveg]

A practical difference that you might want to concider is the direction the shutter speed dial turns. Either can be gotten used to. But if you see an MP or one of the older bodies at some point in your future, the classic would be a better choice because the dials turn the same direction. If you see yourself going to an M7 eventually, the TTL would be the way to go. Then again, this might not matter to you.

[marc_lieberman1]

Francisco-

 

I had only used feature loaded SLR's prior to renting an M6 classic for the weekend 12 months ago.

 

I then bought an M6TTL with .85 vf and 50mm Summicron on ebay for $1400. Looking back, I think that the TTL's slightly different light meter and Alka-Seltzer sized shutter speed dial made it a better "first Leica" than the M6 classic if you are migrating from auto-everything Japanese cameras.

 

I have since owned (and sold) an MP with a .72 vf. I bought a magnifier from another forum member. After noting how well made and well designed it was, I promptly lost it. It is not worth buying a magnifier to use on a 0.72 vf, unless you frequently use a 90mm or 135mm lens (or, I imagine, a Noctilux).

 

I got rid of the auto-everthing SLRs and now use primarily an M3 with 50mm Nokton and M4 with 35mm Summilux ASPH and a small, Sekonic light meter. While the quality of either M6 is superb, it is not as high as the M3 or M4. The M3 has a 0.91 vf and no 28mm, 35mm, or 75mm framelines to clutter up the viewfinder. Because it doesn't have a light meter, the M3 doesn't have in the viewfinder distracting, dancing red dots and arrows either. It is truly a pleasure to shoot with a 50-year-old, recently CLA'd M3, a 50mm lens and small, hand-held meter. It has made me a much better photographer than when I was blasting away with my Canon 10D.

 

Unless you are experienced with manual cameras or light meters, get a used M6TTL with 0.85 vf as your first Leica ($1200-$1300 in excellent condition from someone on this forum). Use it for 3-6 months and then "trade up" to an M3 ($650 for the camera, $200-$300 for a CLA, and $200 for your light meter= $1050 to $1150).

 

If you are experienced with manual cameras, go straight to the M3.

 

Now all you have to do is decide which 50mm.

[fju]

Thank you for the responses so far. I have no intention of ever using a flash. I'm looking

for advice that does not take flash capabilities into consideration. I thought someone

might know if one of the models was more reliable than the other, or if one had more

problems than the other.

 

It seems so far that neither model is head and shoulders above the other.

 

I know that the M6 is slightly smaller than the M6TTL so I'm kind of leaning toward it for

that reason.

[fju]

Marc,

 

I didn't see your post. I'm actually migrating from Pentax manual SLR equipment. So I'm

used to doing everything manually. I was most interested in the M3 but shied away from it

because I think I'd rather have a built-in TTL light meter and I hear it's a hassle to change

the film on the M3. I'm going to give it more thought though. Thank you.

[james mitchell dc]

Francisco, I'm as sorry as everyone not to have read your points slowly enough. If flash is no consideration, get the classic. You will save a couple of hundred dollars, most likely. Also, I recommend an early M6 classic with a recent CLA--a Wetzlar model--as I have owned a few and found that these models have the better and more contrasty viewfinder (closer to the M2,3,4,MP), and also go for a bit less cash. But as my current classic is 20 years old, I am having it checked out and having the viewfinder aligned by Don Goldberg. You have less potential electronic failure with the classic as well. Something to keep in mind.

[tim_franklin]

>I know that the M6 is slightly smaller than the M6TTL so I'm kind of leaning toward it for

that reason.

 

The TTL is a couple of millimetres taller than the Classic. Other than that there is no size

difference.

 

As for loading the M3 (and M2 come to that), yes the leader has to be threaded onto the

removable take-up spool, which makes it a little slower than the more recent bodies. I

would imagine that having a spare spool - onto which you can pre-load a roll of film

would make reloading very fast indeed.

[colin_elliott]

Whatever you buy, I would suggest a CLA by Leica rather than some third party. Only Leica can cover the screwhead with wax and impress an "L" on it!

[anhtu]

If you intend to go down the M6TTL path and use Flash - check that the flash fire/trigger voltage is M6TTL compatible or below, some flashes uses high trigger voltages that "could fry" your M6TTL's electronics.

[alastair_anderson]

Another relatively unimportant difference that no one has mentioned is that the TTL shutter speed dial goes in the opposite direction to the classic shutter speed dial. This was a deliberate 'improvement' as the dial now points in the direction of the exposure indicator arrows.

Personally I much prefer the smaller body and the smaller shutter speed dial although I do appreciate the advantage of the new dial going the right way. But I have other M cameras which all have the smaller 'reverse' dial so I'm used to it.

Two other arguments:

1)There are accessories (close focus attachments and visoflex mirror units) that won't fit the TTL version because of the extra height and

2)Aesthetics. Those extra millimetres are significant. Personally I even dislike the larger rangefinder window on the MP. I think it makes the camera a bit boxy.

 

I would suggest that you go with the classic.

[alastair_anderson]

Sorry, I didn't notice David Geddes' post about the shutter speed direction.

Alastair.

[paul_neuthaler]

Marc, I'm with you! After 3 (count 'em, 3) TTL's, 2 SL's and 1 SL2, I'm sticking with my gorgeous, DAG cla'd DS M3 made in 1957, along with my 50 DR Summicron, 35 RF Summaron and delicious little 90 Elmar -- all made between '57 and '61. They are wonderful!

[SCL]

I've only used the M6TTL & M4, but I like the smaller size of the M4. The point above regarding the use of a visoflex on the M6TTL...you can do so, but you need to use the III version to clear the extra height, a lesson I learned the hard way migrating from my M4. Back to your initial question...the classic seems like the better choice for you, although if the M4 had been in your list I would have placed it first.

[ben z]

Francisco:

 

1) In terms of reliability it's probably going to depend more on the history of the individual camera than the engineering model-to-model, except in the unlikely case you're comparing a new-unsold Classic to a new-unsold TTL. The TTL does have a third, middle meter display diode indicating "correct" exposure, while the Classic you need to get the two triangles the same brightness. I've used both (the MP has the same 3 light setup)and can't say one's better or quicker for me. Otherwise I can't think of anything significant to recommend one over the other.

 

2) If you're never going to be using a 35mm lens, then the .85 seems like the obvious choice, and the original M6 Classic HM can be found relatively cheap today as well as the TTL, it turned out not to be the hot collector's item people thought it would, considering how few of them were made. Maybe a mint one in a sealed box in 10 years : ) I don't see why you'd want to pay another couple hundred for the magnifier unless you already had a .72.

 

"colin elliott , may 12, 2005; 02:28 a.m.

Whatever you buy, I would suggest a CLA by Leica rather than some third party. Only Leica can cover the screwhead with wax and impress an "L" on it!"

 

Actually the M6 has never had an L seal, and Leica even stopped embossing the older ones during repairs back around 1981.

[steve_barrett]

keh.com has an excellent condition Leica M6 Classic 0.85 at a good price on their website right now.

[dan flanders]

Considering your criteria the M6 classic would seem to be just what you need. I have used one for twenty years or so and used flash perhaps eight or ten times. It will likely cost you less and if you can find an early Wetzlar model, many believe it more reliable than later versions. Unless you are tied to spectacles the magnification factor should be of no consequence.