Is the Name "Jena" After CZ's Name a Bad Thing

[steve_levine]

I see a lot of nice old "CZ" & "CZJ" RF and SLR glass in various

mounts. As I understand these are East German made?(By gulag slaves?)

Does the "J" automatically make them inferior to a non "J" CZ lens?

Are these usefull lenses ? And are they up to the CZ name typical

standards?

Thanks !

[kelly_flanigan1]

Carl Friedrich Zeiss died in Jena in 1888. The University of Jena was one of Zeiss's early customers; for microscopes. This was before the American civil war. There was slavery in the USA then; and not in Jena at Zeiss.

[johnny massey]

Steve, whilst I know nothing of the quality of different CZ lenses, I may be wrong but I think the 'gulag slaves?' were more likely to be a local skilled workforce.

[david_kieltyka]

If there's a stigma to the "Jena" label it begins only after WWII and the partition of Germany into separate East & West countries. Prior to the war all Zeiss lenses were labeled "Carl Zeiss Jena." Jena was where the lens-making part of the larger Zeiss company was located.

 

I have a number of Jena SLR lenses in M42 screwmount. These were rarely seen in the U.S. prior to eBay. They're all very good and some are excellent. (Tip: the now much-in-demand and thus very expensive Zeiss 21mm Distagon in Yashica/Contax mount is only marginally superior to the E. German 20mm M42 Flektogon. Better corner performance at larger apertures from the Distagon, lower rectilinear distortion from the Flektogon.) The various Jena medium format lenses are very good too. The post-war Jena RF lenses are more lightly built than their W. German counterparts but optically they're quite fine too.

 

-Dave-

[gabrielma]

<i>Carl Friedrich Zeiss died in Jena in 1888. (...) This was before the American civil war. There was slavery in the USA then...</i><BR><BR>

Wow, somehow Zeiss managed a time warp to before 1865.

[gabrielma]

<i>If there's a stigma to the "Jena" label it begins only after WWII</i><BR><BR>

I tend to agree w/Dave; this being the Internet you get your information for what it's worth --free--, so getting it straight may be confusing, but if you're talking strictly about technical merits, post-WWII there may be build quality differences to the W. German sibling factory, as well as socio-/political-/ethical ones. Many many people find the Iron Curtain period lenses very good and nonobjectionable; you could reflect on it while you jog on your Nikes.

[dan_meyers1]

How can you tell the difference between pre/post WWII?

[karl_heinz_strohmeier]

@Gabriel M.A.

Here you are again, Kelly stated "<i>Carl Friedrich Zeiss died in Jena in 1888. The University of Jena was one of Zeiss's early customers; for microscopes. This was before the American civil war. There was slavery in the USA then; and not in Jena at Zeiss.</i>

 

Best regards from Germany, Karl

[working camera]

The crew at Jena invented the pentaprism for 35mm SLRs. And produced the 1st such camera. This was during the war and the techs a Zeiss largely did this in their own time. So I guess the East German factory was technically deficient.

[craig_zeni]

The CZJ glass for the Pentacon 6 medium format cameras is quite good...most of it is

single coated and still performs well. The later multicoated lenses, especially the 50/4

Flektogon, are very good.

[andrew_hall1]

>The crew at Jena invented the pentaprism for 35mm SLRs. And produced the 1st such camera. This was during the war and the techs a Zeiss largely did this in their own time.

 

CZ Jena only produced lenses, not cameras. Contax S, the 1st SLR with built-in pentaprism, was made by Zeiss Ikon Dresden in 1948 based on pre-war designs derived from the Contax II chasis.

[andrew_hall1]

>How can you tell the difference between pre/post WWII?

 

Pre-war lenses came out of the factory uncoated. To stay on topic, there were no post-war Leica-mount Zeiss lenses until 2005.

 

War-time coated LTM Sonnar: http://cameraquest.com/zeiss852.htm

[al_kaplan1]

In the mid to late 1970's Zeiss made a limited production run of the ultra wide angle Hologon lens and finder in Leica M mount under some sort of agreement with Leitz. Prior to that the lens came on a Zeiss made dedicated body with a built in finder.

[kelly_flanigan1]

One should study the ownership of the Zeiss name in post WW2 East and West Germany; where products could be sold; imported to; and the labeling issues. Very interesting Zeiss stuff.

[tito sobrinho]

Well Gabriel:

 

Carl Zeiss opened his business in 1846 and produced his first microscope in 1857. This was before the Civil War, and he died 23 years later, after the Appomattox's surrender...

[gabrielma]

Thanks for the clarification, Tito. 1888 didn't sound right. ;)

[kelly_flanigan1]

Carl Zeiss died on Dec 3,1988 in Jena. Ernst Abbe died in Jena in 1905. Otto Schott died in Jena in 1935. Jena is a major birthplace of optics. Max Wien died in Jena in 1938; the university square is name after him. Wein of the Wien bridge in electrical engineering.; Messung der Inductionsconstanten mit dem optischen Telephon ; etc.<BR><BR>The Tessar was probably born in Jena.

[vivek iyer]

Must have been way past bedtime for you, Kelly! 1888 vs 1988; Wien/Wein.

[o._i.]

Jena was originally the headquarters for Zeiss and Schott (currently B+W). After the WWII Jena was on the Communist side and most of the engineers for Zeiss got to the Western region as quickly as possible. East Germany continued to make optics under the Zeiss name until the fall of the wall. All lenses marked "Aus Jena", or "Carl Zeiss Jena", "Jena DDR", etc., were made in East Germany under Communist rule. Some of them are quite good, others are so-so. Quality control was always an issue with the Communists, and they didn't always put the same materials in their lenses as the West, using plastic or aluminum instead of stainless steel, for example, so while the lens design and glass may be excellent, (they often stole Western designs without paying copyright) each lens should be evaluated on an individual basis. Remember they were producing quotas, not quality. Generally a Jena lens will sell for far less than its' Western counterpart, even if the lens design is basically the same. The "gulag" labor was mostly in Russia, not East Germany. Stalin started this when he had the children of the officers and families he executed produce the FED cameras, named after "Iron Felix", Felix Edmundovitch Dzerzhinsky, head of the Cheka which later became the KGB. Never one to waste, Stalin decided the orphans should be taught a trade, like camera making. There will be a test tomorrow.

[miha_steinb_cher]

Owl Ink Photography,

 

Could you be so kind and enlighten me which western lens designs were stolen by CZJ?

[jerry_sousa]

So, what's the beer like in Jena?

 

Carl Zeiss Jena binoculars are'nt half bad either!

[jan_brittenson]

My MC Flektogon 35/2.4 is a putrid example of collectivist failure. It just goes to show that Stalin's east German underlings couldn't whip those heathen orphans into doing a good day's job. If they didn't run to the west they'd sit and drink schnaps all day to forget their sorrows, and commiserate over their life in a state that won't let them lynch black people and burn crosses like in America in the 1960s. Don't pretend the Jap stuff isn't any better. By today this stuff is all junk, as can be evidenced by the fact that it's found in children's toy bins everywhere. Would you expect to take serious photographs with a toy-bin camera? Didn't think so. Stop this irrational exuberance over M42 gear. What's next, contemplating the performance of Trabis? (I don't remember a Trabi ever winning the Indy 500.)

 

Take note luddite ostalgists: doing an eBay search on "m42 lens -zoom" may have undesirable consequences. You have been warned. Now be a good consumer and move on, there's nothing more to buy here.

[mskovacs]

The prewar/wartime Jena lenses have serial numbers less than 3,000,000, with only some limited exceptions. My experience is mostly in Contax rangefinder optics. The prewar Sonnar 50/1.5 (uncoated) is a stunning performer. Also, the prewar collapsible Sonnar 50/2 (uncoated). Either are the optical equivalent of my postwar 50/1.5 (coated), issues relating to the coating aside. They are all extremely sharp and well-built optics, in fact they are of even heavier build than my postwar West German lens. There are also wartime (prewar?) CZJ lenses with coating, sometimes marked with the red T, sometimes not.

 

After the war, Jena switched from heavy brass to aluminum mounts. The lenses feel flimsier, and those with helicals tend to suffer more wear-related slop. Optically, they are up to the Zeiss standards I would expect.

[Jochen_S]

There's a note on the fuel tank cap of my motorcycle that MZ (VEB Motoradwerk Zschopau, former DKW, copied by various Japanes, Russians and Harley Davidson) won the Scottish Six Days various times. - I can't say anything about cars; my photo dealers left me no money to afford one.