Presoaking prints and film before development

[mike_grigsby]

I hear of people soaking film and paper before development to

apparently cause the developer. I wondered if anyone could give some

advice on this:

 

1) Is the purpose of doing this to create greater tonal ranges?

 

2) Any recommendations on doing this for film and paper? I've heard

people using a 2 minute water bath for film.

 

3) What affect does it have on development times?

 

Thanks for any input!

[steve_b3]

I soak my 120 B&W film to get rid of the anti-halation backing. Otherwise my negatives have a tendancy to run towards purple and the color migrates back into the developer (T-MAX RS). It dosent affect the development times at all.

[billballardphotography]

I also pre-soak my film for the same reason that Steve mentioned. I've not heard of, (or ever seen), anyone pre-soaking paper prior to development.

 

Regards -

[jan_de_ridder1]

I always pre-soak my films for just over 1 minute and develop 15 seconds longer, that is I start the development timing after i put the lid on, add 5 seconds to the regular development time and then pour the developer out again. I do this without known or apparent reason ... The first film I ever developed I developed on the basis of the instructions of a photographer "veteran" whome since 1938 or so pre-soaked his films ... I do it, it works so why change .... if it works, don't break it.

 

The only exceptions are my Efke films which need to be pre-soaked .... so for these I have a reason ... :-)

 

Jan

[dalahorse]

1) Not that I'm aware of.<p>2) Presoaking film gets rid of the anti-halation dye (not present on most 135 film). In theory, it may cause the emulsion to swell and become more receptive to the developer. Some manufacturers recommend presoaking their films, others recommend against it. I presoak all of my film for 3-5 minutes.

If you choose to presoak, make sure the water temperature is the same as the developer temperature. Also, perform initial agitation to eliminate air bubbles.<p>

I've never used a paper presoak and don't know how well it work work.<p>

3) I don't modify my development times for presoaked film.

[william_wiseman2]

I believe the primary purpose of a water pre-soak is to help prevent air bells from forming on the film. That's why I pre-soak for 2 minutes before developing film. When I didn't pre-soak I did occasionally get air bell marks on film - now I never have the problem. It does help remove the anti-halation dye also. I haven't noticed it changes development time at all - perhaps technically it would, but it would be a very small amount and I believe negligable.

I haven't tried to presoak photo paper, but it might be worth doing as it would flatten the paper out (it tends to curl badly first few seconds when you placed into developer, doesn't it?) and if you did it consistantly for same time it should cause no problem.

[frank.schifano]

I don't think there is any point in soaking paper before development. Usually, papers are developed to completion and by inspection. I have heard of something called water bath development, though I've never tried it. This technique involves immersing the print into developer for a time, then immersing in a water bath. Going back and forth between the two allows for a modicum of contrast control with graded papers. This is a fairly moot point if you, like so many others, use variable contrast paper.

 

Film is something else. I've tried pre-soaking and not pre-soaking and I can't honestly say that there is a significant difference between the two. In winter, when my basement is quite cold, I'll often presoak the film with water tempered to processing temperature. This prevents a cold tank from cooling off my chemistry. Stainless steel tanks, because they are good heat conductors, simply go into the tempering bath along with my chemistry. I don't adjust development times for this and my negatives are good.

 

Slightly off-topic, but perhaps germain to the conversation, are the directions packed into the last E-6 kit I used a couple of weeks ago. They specifically indicated that you should not pre-soak, but rather to immerse the tank into the tempering bath for at least 5 minutes before processing.

[john_finch]

Certain developers are ruined by pre-soaking... Divided developers come to mind. Diafine states not to pre-soak as did other two bath/divided developer manufacturers. Also, I remember Ilford discouraged any pre-soak with there films because it washed out certain additives in the emulsion that aided development in some way (I want to say it was something that helped stop uneven development but I'm not sure).

 

I have pre-soaked and not presoaked and have not observed any difference except for the obviously extended development times if you pre-soak. Now I don't bother but I am using Ilford films almost exclusively.

 

Presoaking graded papers will do nothing but slow down development and unfortunately dilute the working solution. However, some multigrade papers have development agents in the emulsion to speed up the process in automatic machines. These chemicals will be washed out by presoaking. This is of great advantage for the fine art photographic printer who uses factorial development. So, for them at least, it is perhaps not a bad idea.

[lee_shively]

I used to presoak my film but I don't any longer. I've never heard of presoaking photographic paper.

 

The presoaking of film does nothing for the tonal range. You may be thinking of aftersoaking film for this. Gently moving film to a container of plain water after it has gone through the development stage and letting it set for a couple of minutes is something I have done infrequently. The theory is that the water will stop or slow down development in the highlights but it will continue in the shadows thus giving more shadow detail without burning out the highlights. I can't prove this theory but I have used the method to try and salvage some badly underexposed film. Whether it worked or not is debatable.

[silent1]

I've never presoaked. I one-shot my developer, so I don't care that it's dark red or blue-gray with dye when I pour it off. I've never had a problem with unevenness, and I strongly doubt presoaking affects tones one way or the other. Originally, it was done to slow the uptake of developer into the film, reduce the chance of air bells and bubbles on the film surface, and combat unevenness, but I don't feel it's productive with modern films and developers, and certainly not with the high dilution and slow process I use. I've never seen an air bell, and have had microbubbles only when using home mixed developer incorporating sodium carbonate and instant coffee, both of which carry considerable air into the liquid as they dissolve.

[loren_sattler]

I pre-soak film solely to have better control of temperature. I use stainless steel tanks. To help control the process, I measure the temperature of the developer as it comes out of the tank. This is simply to know if the temperature varies from my standard 68 degrees and take out one more variable from my process.

 

If I do not pre-soak, I routinely find that the temperature comes out 1-2 degrees above my 68 degree starting temperature. So I presoak at 68 degrees and let the tank sit in 68 degree water during processing. Even with this precedure, I often measure the developer coming out at 68.5 to 69 degrees. I cannot explain why it warms up? One-half to one degree processing error is negligeable, amounting to only about 20 seconds equivalent processing time.

 

Never heard of pre-soaking papers.

[dennis_oconnor3]

You do agitate vigerously for the first ten seconds and then give the tank a firm thunp on the counter before setting it into the tempering bath, of course...

 

Automatic film developer machines don't presoak anything...

I have not presoaked film in 50 years of banging around in darkrooms - I don't get streaks or air bells... It works for me, so why change it...

As far as temperature control for roll film, I use the extremely high tech method of a largish plastic dishpan (pink, BTW) half full of 68 deg. water, with all the chemicals in mason jars standing in the tempering water... I rarely see a change in the temperature in the 8 - 9 minutes it takes to soup a negative, and even then it is a tenth of a degree at most...

 

denny