From hobby to career.....

[wilvoeka]

Hello all.

 

Ive been reading through the forums here for some time and finally signed up.

 

Heres a little background about myself before I ask you for some feedback.

 

I have been a avid hobbist for many years. I shot and developed my first

photos in elementry school as part of a class I had in the sixth grade, and

really never lost interst since. I atteded the Ohio Institue of Photography

were I majored in Commercial photography, but also minored in Portraiture and

digital imaging.

 

Due to circumstances beyond my control I will soon find myself without

gainfull employement. On the plus side though I will be recieving a

substantial severance package which will help me eliminate alot of debt and

leave me with a modest amount left over.

 

My wife thinks I should take this oppurtunity to make a career out of my love

of photography. Ive done paying work in the past. Ive done work for Community

theaters, weddings, Softball teams, Web graphics and Photo restorations.

 

So here is where I'd like to get some opinions from those that regularly make

a living with thier cameras.

 

Since I am just starting out I would like to stay as flexible as possible

until I find my niche.

 

I currently own a Canon 10D, 300 f/4L, 200 2.8L, Tamron 90mm Macro and a canon

28-200 USM. I am considering selling all this gear and starting fresh. I also

have 2 420ex speedlights and a set of Studio Strobes I will be keeping.

 

Im considering...

 

Lenses

 

17-40L

50 1.4 USM or a 85mm

70-200L

100mm Macro USM

2X Converter

 

Flashes

 

580EX

ST-E2 Transmitter

 

Bodies....

 

This is where it gets diffacult I will have the money to buy any of the Canon

bodies. I really cant decide if I should....

 

Buy a 30D and keep my 10D as my secondary

 

Buy a 5D and keep the 10D..

 

Buy a 1D Mark IIN " "

 

Or buy 2 30Ds or a 1D Mark IIN and a 30D.

 

Having the money doesnt mean I want to spend it haphazardly, but I also dont

want to buy now and discover I need to buy new bodies later to suit my needs.

 

I know all the technical differances in all the bodies, I would just like to

hear some reall world reports to help me make a more informed decission.

 

I would like to hear what gear you use, its benefits and limits, and what type

of photography your primary focus is on.

 

I know this is a long post, but Im the type of person that likes to weigh the

tech sheets against real uses.

 

Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide.

[stephen sullivan]

"J,"

 

You're going to have to ask yourself the question...

 

"Am I going to try and make a living off of my hobby or am I going to try and make an

income off my talent in a field where I can excel in a particular niche?"

 

Thanks for your post. Now perhaps I can ask myself the same question and this time come

up with an answer for myself.

[dean doe]

I have the 100mm macro and 50mm 1.4 lenses and the 5D in almost brand new condition for sale. I need to trim down the equipment I hardly use in anticipation for purchasing the Leica M digital coming out soon. Please email me for details.

[wilvoeka]

Well anyone that works for themselves tries to find a niche. Some times your passion may be Landscapes but you talent is Portraiture, so in order to put food on the table you do portraits, but you dont stop shooting the landscapes.

 

As I said, I want to start with a good flexible kit that I can build on as I try and Find my niche.

[slichtyler]

With the camera bodies, one thing to consider is that you'd like for all your gear to work

more or less the same with all of them. Life gets complicated when they use different

accessories, have different layouts and different menus, and lenses function differently on

them. (I've got three cable releases for four Canon EOS cameras; I've got EZ and EX flashes --

and if I walk around with both a film camera and a 1.6-crop digital camera, I've got to pack

different lenses.)

 

I might favor trying to keep your two cameras as similar as possible -- depending on how

much you use your secondary, a 30D/10D or 30D/30D combination.

[wolver]

I would purchase a 5D and keep the 10D as back up. I would also keep the 300 f/4 L.

 

As far as new lenses it really depends on what your niche will eventually be. The lenses you have suggested will cover a pretty decent range.

 

I wouldn't bother with a 2x TC though because of the soft image quality you end up with.

 

My main income is stock photography from quite a variety of subjects. So to cover this wide range of subjects I have a 1.4 TC and 5 zooms that cover 10mm to 500mm.

[suman]

"J"

<p> Since you are starting up, do not invest big money on expensive bodies, rather stress upon good lenses. If I am in your shoe, I would definitely get 17-40L and 50mm f1.4. You do not need a 85 f1.8 as of now, since 50 1.4 will cover the focal length for portrait shots. And tamron 90mm can fill the gap if you need longer reach. Under the same logic, you do not need a 100mm MAcro USM and 2X converted for now. As a new body, I would purchase a 30D. Save whatever extra cash lying around and dump them in a CD :). Oh, make sure to take out money for your 580EX and STE2. And if you don't have one by now, you have to have a good tripod/ballhead.

</p>

[r._j.]

I prefer fixed lenses, but ou don't seem to mind zooms, so:

 

5d body (full frame, big megapixels) with whatever back-up you see fit;

 

16-35/2.8, 50/1.4, 70-200 2.8 IS, 1.4x (if you need it)

 

... and keep the 300mm f4.

 

Exactly what will you be shooting? Watch out with slower apertured zooms (f4) in low light. Being let down by equipment on a paid shoot is extremely frustrating.

 

I do not carry "back up" camera bodies - every body that I am carrying is being used. Shoot every pro assignment on at least two bodies and lenses to cover against malfunctions if shooting film, which you ain't, admittedly.

 

Also get bounce diffusers for your flash units.

[andrew robertson]

You'd be nuts to sell the 300.

[digitmstr]

Your 'niche' will dictate the equipment. Don't forget that you will need some cash left over to advertise your services.

 

When your livelyhood depends on your gear (be it photo, music, video, etc...) you will want to ask yourself the following:

 

1) Does it do what I need?

 

2) Am I paying for features I will never or seldom use?

 

3) Is it reliable enough for me to depend on?

 

4) How many years do I plan on keeping it?

[yakim_peled1]

Current body: 10D - Keep as back-up.

 

Current lenses: Sell all.

 

Current flashes: 420EX - Keep.

 

Buy new body: As I see it, a pro photographer needs pro tools and - in that case - that steers to towards 1D Mk II N.

 

Buy new lenses: The same applies here. 16-35/2.8 or 17-40/4 + 24-70/2.8 or 24-105/4 IS + 70-200/2.8 IS + 1.4X TC.

 

Buy new flash: 580EX.

 

 

 

HTH.

 

 

Happy shooting,

Yakim.

[bill_d.]

Your choice of a body may be dictated by your customer (requiring images with minimum file sizes) ...

[goran1]

"As I see it, a pro photographer needs pro tools and - in that case - that steers to towards 1D Mk II N."

 

A few other previous comments were aiming at not only the quality or versatility if you will, but also the confidence and to some extent the "stereotipity" expected of a professional photographer. You have to exude some amount of confidence that in returm finds the ultimate confirmation in the tools you're using.

 

And remember, your customers wont necessarily always know the difference between an L lens and a cheap zoom, or even a DSLR or a SLR for that matter, but they'll be able to tell if something looks pro/expensive or not. And although looks don't necessarily mean diddly squat they do go a long way in terms of making the sale. And if you want to sell yourself over the next guy, you'll want to look the part and if you look the part, you'll feel the part much easier with your customers having no a priori doubts regarding your competence or quality. I mean, would a complete looser be posing with a 1D and L grade lenses that look, feel and shoot expensive, just for the hell of it? I wouldn't think so:)

 

I'd go with Yakim on this one and also remind you not to forget a nice bag and all the other little details that go along with a hardcore professional. The devil's in the details...

[mendel_leisk]

J, what was the "**" after 1D Mark IIN for. Some comment you were going to make?

[wilvoeka]

"****"

 

Repeating the same as above. This forum elimanates blank space so it didnt show the way I typed it.

 

So basicly 1D Mark IIN and keep my 10D.

[w_t1]

I'd say slow down, perhaps add the 17-40, sell the 28-200, and then make a go of it with the 10D. If you can't make it with a 10D, you won't make it. Add the equipment as you need it. I'm still selling photos I shoot on film...Put the cash aside in a CD or mm acct...I'm generally opposed to rash moves, like people that decide to "sell all my nikon equipment and moving to canon" or vice versa...my primary focus is landscapes, i shoot everything from 35mm film to 4x5 film, and the fanciest digital i use is the 10d

[tom_m2]

You may be a good photographer, but I'm not sure you're asking the right business questions. For a professional, everything needs to pay for itself, and you want to keep up-front costs as low as possible.

 

Unless you live in the boondocks, there's probably a reasonably well-stocked rental place nearby. In that case, it probably makes the most sense to just get a 5D and 24-105, and rent another body and any other lenses for each job until you have figured out what you need. The 90, 200, and 300 you already have are good complements for that.

 

If you do live in the boondocks, or you travel a lot, then you probably need two bodies and you need to cover more focal length range yourself. In that case, I'd go with APS-C and the 10-22, 17-85IS, and 70-200L. I'd also get a 28/1.8 "just in case" (not a great lens, but it gets the job done in a pinch). Unless you are doing sports, it probably won't make much difference which of the post-10D models you get, but dump the 10D because it doesn't take EF-S. Personally, I think an XT with a battery grip is a nice size.

[rtrace]

"If you can't make it with a 10D, you won't make it."

 

Best advice so far since it's very true.

 

Bogdan

[goran1]

Hard to argue with that. Although based on the fact that J has a long time historty with photography and has been working as a semi pro in the past, I've been building from a premise that he "can make it with a 10d" but wants to stock up with a few big guns.

So as it would be wrong to guide him toward bancrupcy with ill-warranted projections of personal desires for things such as the 1D MKII, it wouldn't be entierly fair to diss his motivation by fading the differences between a 10d and a 1d:)

But I agree, you should not over do it. You can always get an extra lens or body later on, should you feel it to be necessary.

[alexdi]

5D<bR>

24-70/2.8<bR>

70-200/2.8 IS<bR>

<bR>

10D<bR>

17-50/2.8 (Tamron)<bR><bR>

 

580EX<bR><bR>

 

That's all. A "professional" kit for any circumstance between 24mm and 200mm, and a cheap wide angle for the 10D in case the 5D breaks.

<bR><bR>

What I haven't seen, though, is where you plan to make money. Do you already know what will become the bulk of your business? If you did, I suspect you'd already know what your kit should be.

<bR><bR>

DI

[medina photography cherry]

I did not read any of the responses, but I will tell you this. Once you use a camera that turns on fast like the 1D MKII, 20D, 30D etc. You will come to hate the slowness of the 10D, sometimes it seems like an eternity for it to come on, especially when the shot is happening and you are waiting for the bodies electronics to kick in.

[e._r._averitt]

Hello J;

 

My 2 cents, for "pro" use you will need one the Mark 1d cameras, for their ruggedness and all weather proof features. The same thing will also apply for your lenses (L glass F2.8 zooms)too. You can still use your 10d as your backup, or as a second camera. For flash, 580ex, St-e2, and a good flash bracket.

 

A good insurance policy will help too!

 

Good luck, E. R.

[yakim_peled1]

>> I'd also get a 28/1.8 "just in case" (not a great lens, but it gets the job done in a pinch).

 

 

While I agree that the 28/1.8 USM is not a great lens like the 85/1.8 USM, it's still a very good one and - IMHO - gets the job done in much more than a pinch.

 

A note: This is not a recommendation to the OP to buy it as I think - and wrote above - that primes are of little use to a working pro.

 

 

Happy shooting,

Yakim.

[wilvoeka]

I have no doubt I could do it with the 10D. But I would prefer to have 2 bodies for paid work. The person footing the bill wont be intersted in why I was unable to complete the job.

 

Most of the work I did in the past I got because I was willing to do what other photographers in my area werent. Like showing up for a Softball tournement to get actual playing shots not posed.

 

Im thinking there are probably two areas for me to explore.

 

1. Continuing to offer the Non standard. Which I would prefer to the just doing the same things over and over. I worked for a studio doing all thier balck and white printing. They had 5 shots that were thier standards and they would rarely do anyhitng different. It my put money in the bank but I wouldnt be very satisfied with it.

 

2. I have several pets(mostly abondend animals or rescues) My vet has told me many times that I am the type of person animals feel comfortable around, he has seen me be friend what are ussualy very agressive dogs. So perhaps pet photography may be something I need to strongly consider.

 

Based on the feedback here and from some other Proffesionals from the NAPP site I think I have got a good Idea of where I need to start with my gear.

 

Im going to keep my 10D and get the 50 1.4 and keep this lens on the 10D in my bag.

 

I am also going to purchase the 5D. I will probably never need to print as high as the resolution will allow, but I figure its like scanning film. Scan it bigger than you need you can always go down, but going up isnt always prudent.

 

I have never any extremely wide lenses when I owned them, and I never really had a need for them. So I will be getting the 24-70L and the 70-200L.

 

I am also going to get the 580EX Speedlite and the ST-E2 transmitter. I have been very impressed with the results alot of people get with the Multi Falsh set ups, and combining this with my 420s I should have a semi decent portable lighting kit if I need it.

 

Im going to take some of my money and place it in some type of short term MM or CD for furure needs, and put the rest in long term investments.

 

I am very greatfull for everyones feed back and I am still intersted in any comments you all may have.

 

I am very impressed with the helpfull attitudes everyone has here, I will always be using this site as the first place I go fr advice.

 

Thank you all very very much.

[yakim_peled1]

>> I will be getting the 24-70L and the 70-200L.

 

 

I will recommend getting the 24-70L and the 70-200L IS.

 

 

Happy shooting,

Yakim.