Does the Canon 5D need to be recalled?

[uk]

There's no doubt that the failures get exaggerated on the web forums, but the number of

problems with Canon gear is causing me to hesitate in purchasing a 2 body, 3/4 lens

outfit.

 

I'm currently shooting weddings with Leica M cameras and using a digital workflow after

scanning. I want AF, histogram feedback and no scanning. I favour 1D mKII N with the 5D

in competition. I read photo.net and DWF with enthusiasm trying to decide which body/

lens combination to choose. There are many unhappy users:

 

One very well known ex-Leica M UK wedding shooter is now seeking his 4th & 5th 1D's in

three years through banding problems.

 

Wide zoom glass is too soft.

 

24-70mm is not quality as good as 24-105mm which has IS but won't focus easily in low

light.

 

AF on the 1D is the best, except that users claim the 5D is better.

 

Everybody would like a weather sealed 5D, nobody has one.

 

Most stongly suggest a back-up, nobody wants to carry it.

 

The 5D is a "dust magnet".

 

So, I'm not knocking the 5D or Canon in any way as I'm about to invest heavily into it. It's

just a bit confusing. I've owned Leica and Hass gear for 20 years and only ever had one

problem with it, but times have moved on and I will too.

 

I appreciate these threads and it's good to know there are problems out there and also

many satisfied users, so thanks for being so open.

[carlosmiller]

Thanks for all the answers, especially those who advised me on how to fix the "00" aperture problem. I cleaned the contacts and I imagine this will address the problem.

 

And yes, I use only Canon lenses and I do turn the camera off when changing lenses.

[jake_holt]

Ok, here's my novel: Based on my experience as a Canon-using photographer and also as

an employee of a certain giant nationwide photography chain, (starts with R and ends with

Z) I do feel that Canon has pretty significant QC problems.<p>

 

Personal experience: I have purchased 3 Canon DSLR's, a 20D, 30D and 5D, all factory

fresh. Both the 20D and 5D were defective out of the box. That's a 67% personal Canon

DSLR failure rate (also known as PCDSLRFR) All coincidence and chance aside, that is bad.

<p>

Details: 20D - purchased from B&H - the viewfinder LCD was totally out of whack, like a

broken watch. Eights all across, totally unintelligible. Since stupid me opened the software

prior to testing the camera, B&H wouldn't replace it for me, so off to Canon goes my 1 day

old camera. Props to Canon, they sent me a shipping label and turned the repair around in

only 6 days - 6 real days, not business days. And that included shipping time from Texas

to California!

<p>

5D - Purchased from the local "Pro" shop. Finally decided to take the plunge, wanted to

use it for an upcoming job, and needed time to test it, so, it was worth paying a premium

over B&H. Plus, with my 20D experience, I wanted to be able to easily exchange it if

necessary. I tested it over a variety of ISO speeds and with various lenses, and it seemed

fine. I used it on a job, and found that, only intermittently, there was very bad noise in

horizontal bands, at all ISO speeds. Side by side with the 20D files, the 5D had much,

much worse noise. Ok, that's not supposed to be that way. Called Canon, they said it's

broken and send it in. Hooray, I bought it in town, so I took it back to the shop with

samples and they agreed, and swapped it out for me. The new one is fine, so far.

<p>

 

Why is this happening? I believe that Canon, and other manufacturers as well, are just

rushing products out as fast as possible to meet demand and replacement cycle hype, and

there is just not enough time to properly QC everything and then get it to the market in

sufficient quantities to satisfy the masses. As I said, I work at a camera store part-time as

well, and it's not just Canon who has issues - we get a surprisingly high percentage of

digital cameras returned as defective, and it's not user error. I've personally taken cameras

out of the boxes to put on display and had them be broken. The percentage of first-run

D200's that were defective was astonishing - I'd conservatively estimate at least 25%.

Maybe that was just chance, who knows, but enough times becomes a trend, not chance.

The overall amount of defective product we see far exceeds the "less than 1%" number that

was put forward earlier. I don't think it's going to get any better, at least for mass-market

brands, until the typical replacement cycle slows wayyyy down.

<p>

 

So, although I am generally unhappy with Canon's QC, switching brands probably won't

help any! Plus, until someone else can match Canon's low-noise standards and provide a

full-frame sensor, I really have no choice, I'd rather go through multiple 5D's! Maybe that's

part of it - for some models, Canon is THE market, and people who need it will keep

coming back regardless - I'm one of those people.

[jim_britt1]

so far, amazing results from the camera... didn't know you were supposed to switch the

camera off when changing lenses! Had no problems, but I'll do it from now on... great

camera.

[mendel_leisk]

I've noticed after using manual mode, and then switching back to program, something seems to be misbehaving. Haven't been paying enough attention, or had it often enough to recall exactly, but I think it something to do with exposure bars along the bottom, that show exposure comp. in program mode. I can't remember exactly what happens, but it seems like it thinks it's still in manual mode somehow.

[dogbert]

I never claimed my stats were robust at the 95 per cent confidence level. Actually I was struck by all the people claiming that their 5D was ok, as if this somehow proved something. I admit I was being deliberately provocative, and will try to be a better statistician in future. (Now if I could only be a better photographer!)

 

BTW a random sample of about 30 would produce somewhat more robust stats and while internet postings suffer from selection bias I am not sure which way the bias cuts. There are a lot of people eager to jump in to defend their 5Ds.

[jim_larson1]

<i>Do you routinely TURN OFF the camera when changing lenses, adding/removing flashes, removing/inserting CF cards, etc? This is very important.</i>

<p>

What, exactly, does TURN OFF a 5D mean? How is OFF different that ASLEEP? On the older dSLRs (earlier than 20D), OFF was "unpowered", and when you turned it ON, the camera would actually reboot.

<p>

But. . .it appears apperent that the newer models (20D, XT, 5D), the lightning quick startup time is achieved by NOT rebooting the camera when turning it on. In essense. . .the camera is merely asleep. I suspect the only way to get really turn the camera OFF and force a reboot is to pull the backup battery (not sure pulling the main battery will do it)

<p>

Think of it like a laptop where you close the cover, as opposed to actually powering it down.

<p>And yes . . .00 means that the camera does not recognize that a lens that is attached -> I get it all the time if I switch lenses with the camera on (like. . .when I don't have a lens attached). "99" is a general camera fault, which implies that the camera recognizes that a lens is present. . but can't talk to it.

[lester_wareham]

"What, exactly, does TURN OFF a 5D mean?".

 

Yes you are right the processor etc will go into a low power mode rather than off. What this means is as a minimum the clock trees in the processor will largly be switched off, it is the transitions of the clocks and the gates connected to them that uses power.

 

What this does mean is the pins on the lens mount will be assured to be inactive and so a lens change will be less likly to cause a glitch in the communication interface between the camera and lens.

 

I am not sure this is absolutly necessary but it is good advice if in doubt.

 

I think most problems other than the odd DOA or soon after will be caused by moisture, either through rain (even the series one bodies do not have an ingress protection rating) or more insidiously via condensation particularly in the tropics. All might seem OK for day or weeks but eventuly a failure might happen.

 

It is worth taking the pracutions to minimise that by sealing the camera in a plastic bag until it has warmed up to the ambient temperatures. Thes things are unpredicable so just because you got away with something with an earlier camera does not mean you will on eavery occasion.

[jari_huuskonen]

Hi, i switched my camera to 5D two months ago. Unreal problems since.

Focusing errors and other weird problems , left bottom corner is sharpest but DOF in left corner is worst. Right bottom corner is near sharp as left bottom corner but not as good that left bottom also saturation problems on right bottom corner, DOF in right bottom corner is best. Centre of image is sharp but not equally left bottom corner. Upper right corner is very soft, left upper corner soft but not so soft that right upper corner is. Also focusing point is not always sharp, sharpest part of picture varied. Camera is in service. Hope that they can do something with it or i neet to shoot whit my ixus 400 which gives me better pictures at the moment.

[lester_wareham]

"left bottom corner is sharpest but DOF in left corner is worst. Right bottom corner is near sharp as left bottom corner but not as good that left bottom also saturation problems on right bottom corner, DOF in right bottom corner is best. "

 

Were you using a crop camera previously?

 

If so you would have been unaware of the corner performance of some of your lenses. Some variation in corner sharpness due to decentreing is to be expected. It should improve as you stop down.

 

Fast wide angle lenses like the 16-35 are most likely to show the issue more obviously.

[jari_huuskonen]

Were you using a crop camera previously? yes 30D.

I know that corners in full frame camera is softer than eg 1.6x crop camera but my problem is far from that. Test pic that i take with camera was following 5 A4 sheet's printed out 8 to 72 point diagram which was full zero's and x marks like xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxox increased by two. So that first line has 8-point letters, second line 10-point letters etc...

one a4 paper in middle and rest of a4 papers so that they was connected to middle paper with their corners.

Focused camera to paper that was in middle from 3m, camera was in tripod and self-timer was in use. Test result

 

The paper that was in middle was so sharp that i was capable to read 12-point letters from picture.

Left bottom corner 8 point letters was so VERY sharp.

Right bottom corner 8-point letter was readable but soft.

Left upper corner 16-point letters was soft 18-point letters was clear.

Right upper corner 16-18 point letter was unsharp 20-point letter was sharp.

Papers was connected to wall with black tape, in right bottom corner tape was in picture blue.

Tested with 3 different lenses which all are L-series, every time some result.

 

 

 

In landscape picture which was focused to 10m errors appears like following, left site picture was very soft to the half of picture, left bottom corner was sharpest on picture which should be in full frame camera worst. DOF in left site picture was inferior than right side?.

All picture was taken with raw, even if i worked half out with photoshop i could not get pictures out that was sharp.

[jari_huuskonen]

One clarification, distance varied depending focal lenght of my lenses 17-40, 70-200 and 50mm 1.8M1 test pictures what i take was taken so that the five A4 papers was in picture wholly and when i say that some corner was not sharp it stand whole row of A4 paper. So my pictures had 10% area in left bottom corner which sharp. Rest of pic is mess.

Have to say that im not satisfied Canon 5D user. When you are buying camera that cost honey you certainly expect to get quality on your hands and not camera that is comparable to market cameras.

[lester_wareham]

jari:

 

Was the problem in the same corner(s) for all your lenses or does it depend on the lens?

 

Was it when the lens was wide open and improving as you stopped down?

 

Was it worst for ultra wide and better for telephoto?

 

Can you put up some 100% crops so we can see what you are talking about.

 

PS This thread is long dead. It might be worth starting a new thread and linking to it from here. That way you may get more people to help.

[jari_huuskonen]

Was the problem in the same corner(s) for all your lenses or does it depend on the lens?

: Problems was all the time same places, when used smaller focal lenght lenses problems was worse.

 

Was it when the lens was wide open and improving as you stopped down?

: Tested with 4/5.6/7.1/8 and 11 no matter to final result.

 

Was it worst for ultra wide and better for telephoto?

: as i mention upper results where little better whit telephoto lenses, but still very poor result.

 

Can you put up some 100% crops so we can see what you are talking about.

: attempt to do that yesterday but site has 100k size limit, and image

must be viewed with full size to see errors correctly. I can post image if someone wants.

 

PS This thread is long dead. It might be worth starting a new thread and linking to it from here. That way you may get more people to help.

[jari_huuskonen]

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00JZws

[david hardaway]

I don't know if they need to be recalled or not, but it seems like a flip of the coin with just about any manufacturer of digital cameras these days.

 

I started out as a Canon user, Rebel, 10D, 20D, several prime lenses, 24-105 L, 70-200 L, 28-135, and many pocket sized Canons for quick pictures (SD700 IS currently). And now after all this.... I finally got the chance to get the 5D I have been reading about for 2+ years. I got it on Wednesday... I couldn't wait to get it home and start the ritual of carefully opening and placing the packaging back in the box, preparing the camera for it's first shots... yes. You know what I am talking about. I even bought the EF 50 f1.4 to go with it.

 

I put everything away, formatted the CF card in the camera and start snapping the usual things around the house and after 10 shots I decided to take a look at the results. Put the CF card back in the camera after transferring the pictures and there it was. "CF ERR". I pulled out the 20D, card worked fine in it, tried two additional cards, nothing. Try to format in the 5D?..."Cannot Format Card"

 

Changed lenses, swapped fully charged batteries. Nothing "CF ERR"

 

I am optimistic that it is bad luck. A new one is in route as of this morning and I will ship this one back. Hopefully won't happen again, as I have waited for full frame for a LONG time....

 

David - Houston, TX