Experience and cynicism

[arond a.]

Do you become more visually savvy with time and experience, or more cynical of

opportunities and possibility? Does your experience mean that you eliminate

possibilities before they even arise? Obviously you must be discriminating to

separate what is worthwhile from what is not. Can you 'discriminate' yourself

out of a hobby?

[dickhilker]

I feel you do become more savvy, but at the risk of becoming cynical.

 

If you don't become more discriminating, it suggests you're not growing, but if you become hypercritical in the process there's the real risk of taking all the joy out of it. I guess a lot has to do with why you make pictures: if you do it for a living, it's likely to become drudgery anyway. If it's just for the enjoyment, then discrimination is a way of refining your technique and culling out those shots that don't meet your increasingly higher standards.

 

As with most things, though, if carried too far I think there's a good chance it could make photography less than fun.

[ben conover]

Hi Arond,

 

Photography is a hobby for me so it is a fact that I have less experience than a pro. I believe that people can discriminate positively, think about it. The word discrimination is so often used in the negative sense. I think hobbyists, Amatuers, Beginners, Pros, whatever...they (we) can all discriminate!

 

I have seen more at age 36 than I had aged 16, however I had more to see then, if you see what I mean.... No regrets seems to ring some bells. I am cynical and I admit it, but sometimes I am not at all, and it dosen't always come with experiences. Some people are cynical just because they can't see! Not most though. I try not to eliminate possibilites, I search for possibilities that pay off, the shot that works.

 

Yes I agree Dick, being hypercritical takes all the fun out of it, perhaps the control needed to be critical and enjoy the moment is key. I'm still trying to find that in this isolated place called Ireland.

 

Hopefully as I get some experience I'll become less cynical.

 

Interesting to read what others with more experience than me will make of your thread.

 

Cheers.

[ben conover]

Depends what you mean by savvy. Savant or gifted is something people can be but it is not always something that improves with age. For most people though, it can. So, I reckon we do get better at seeing as we get more experience.

 

Arond, do you feel more flexible visually now or has time jaded your lenses?

 

Cheers.

[dickhilker]

"do you feel more flexible visually now or has time jaded your lenses?"

 

If you'd asked me that question, Ben, I'd have said that, at 73, I'm probably seeing more now than I ever have because there are more strings into my memory bank with which to relate what I'm viewing. There's also something to be gained from the perspective of time, a realization that this experience isn't infinite and that everyting we experience lies along a time line that has a beginning and an end. Our images relate, I feel, to that continuum and mark where we've been and perhaps suggest where we may be going.

 

I imagine Arond's use of the term "savvy" is in the context of its Spanish root, "saber -- to know." Doesn't Ireland offer an especially rich source of images? One of our local photographers leads tours there each year and I'd love to be able to go sometime. Seems the grass is always greener . . . . folks flock to my hometown (Plymouth, Mass.)with cameras at the ready to capture the local scenery and yet there are too many times when I feel I've done it all and can't find anything new to work with. Maybe I've fallen into that trap of discriminating myself out of a hobby!

[pico_digoliardi]

Neither.

[ben conover]

Dick, Ireland offers a very flexible and old timers attitude to photography, in some ways. You are welcome, although personally I'd rather go to Canada! Indeed, the grass is very green here but it's always greener somewhere else. Anyhow, I like the Tuscan climate and colours. I haven't done much photography here (or there) but clearly the differences are worth seeing.

 

After having seen so much I'm glad you can look back and appreciate the moments with such lucidity, I hope I can too one day! I'm half your age and only have about 200 photos I sort of might like. I hope to improve on that percentage a little with time.

 

One can become trapped into a way of seeing, not a good idea. Sometimes other people see merit in your work where you can't, and you wonder why but it really helps. I saw some Hydrangeas yesterday

and they were pale beside the photos you made.

 

It's clear that us humans can remember things visually by all means of patterns and logic, although seldom photographically. Perhaps that's one reason we persist in using cameras. We lack photographic memory? Does the autistic savant kid who can draw a train terminal from memory improve with age? Does he ever become a cynic?

[ben conover]

Dick, if you feel you've exhausted photographic opportunities or just get tired looking for a new chance, why not do some teaching?

[sknowles]

Hmmm..., interesting questions. To answer:

 

"Do you become more visually savvy with time and experience, or more cynical of

opportunities and possibility?"

 

Both, but mostly I enjoy taking photographs. Sometimes I'm very discriminating and

discerning with the number of shots and other times I just shoot away. My only limitation

is the cost, turning in the rolls of film. When I decide to photograph I don't let the number

of images decide when I stop.

 

" Does your experience mean that you eliminate possibilities before they even arise?"

 

You have to know your strengths and weaknesses in looking and seeing. I tend to focus on

the bigger picture and have to remember to stop and look at the pieces. It's why I enjoy

seeing others' images, to get ideas on how to see.

 

"Can you 'discriminate' yourself out of a hobby? "

 

They're called mental vacations. Sometimes I take a few months off for life, work and other

reasons, and sometimes to rest and refresh the photography synapses. Then I'll take the

camera again.

 

It's my view there's always a photograph in everything, we just don't always see it. And just

when you think there isn't, someone will show an image of it that proves you wrong.

[don_mckeith]

Experience comes from doing (it)

 

Wisdom comes fron doing(it) poorly-

 

you can only learn from mistakes--and it takes a while.If you become more cynical, you probably aren't learning.

 

Insanity-

 

doing the same thing over and over....and expecting different results.

[dickhilker]

"why not do some teaching?"

 

Great idea, Ben, and something I tried a few months ago with a workshop for artists and photographers in our area. There was a surprisingly strong turnout and a very stimulating afternoon of discussion and demonstration that left me feeling as though perhaps I'd learned more than they had! Feedback has been very positive and I may do another later this year to cover some areas in greater depth. One thing's for certain about teaching anything -- it forces you to learn a lot about your subject that you might have thought you already knew.

 

Another approach I found useful in dealing with the "blahs" was the ongoing experiment with scanning subjects on a flatbed scanner, instead of making a conventional photograph. That's helped in a variety of ways to give me a clearer perspective about conventional image-making.

 

However you do it, a change of pace or shift of focus can help a lot in keeping alive the joy of making pictures.

[beeman458]

"Do you become more visually savvy with time and experience, or more cynical of opportunities and possibility?"

 

Maybe a bit of both. One, if they're trying/learning, definitely becomes "more visually savvy," but their experienced eye (cynical) also becomes more discriminating.

 

"Does your experience mean that you eliminate possibilities before they even arise?"

 

Sometimes yes and other times no. Depends on what I'm looking for and what's before me. I try to limit the total number of shots on an outing but the fact that I have to cull the que afterwards shows that I'm letting some worthless images through:) Taking a bunch of shots and hoping, doesn't cut it cause that means you don't have a clue. I don't like the machine gun approach either; firing away at anything and everything that falls under my gaze as I "try" to be selective when I take the camera with me. I might do ten to twenty shots, not counting erased images, select out three to five images to convert in the RAW converter and then maybe print one to three/four of the images, 11"x17" for the portfolio that I drag around.

 

I don't do tourist style shots, as an example.

 

I like to go on outings and "occasionally" bring the camera along but the wife knows that this is a photo outing as in I'm lost taking pictures honey but she gets a decent meal afterwards as a reward for her companionship and patience:)

 

A lot of what I do is "inspired" imagery as opposed to the happenstance, "By golly, that sure came out real good Clem.", style of photography. You have to keep your eyes on a swivel as you drive around town looking for inspiration and you have to make time to bring the camera out or all is lost.

 

"Obviously you must be discriminating to separate what is worthwhile from what is not. Can you 'discriminate' yourself out of a hobby?""

 

Maybe but I think that only becomes a possibility if you stop taking the camera out, start listening to your critics or just lose interest altogether. It's up to you to find new ways to keep it fresh and interesting.

[chris_waller]

I try always to remain open to that feeling that I get when I see something and want to photograph it. I avoid thinking about why, I just react to the feeling. I have in my mind a definitve picture of the subject and then I work to try to realise it in a print.

[pico_digoliardi]

Search this site for the string "Eisenstaedt" for a humbling experience concerning discriminating events. Briefly, I met him while shooting a small, local Soap Box Derby practice that my uninformed young mind presumed would be boring.

 

The informed/experienced photographer presumes nothing.

 

Another was when a friend who worked for Black Star asked me to join her for a drive into the Florida Everglades because I had military and jungle experience. It was a strange request, but I went, cameras at the ready. We encountered CIA funded (well funded!) Cuban-Americans doing military training en-masse. They were perfectly friendly and as long as I kept her from doing something stupid, we were okay to shoot.

 

While driving out of the 'glades, a whole line of TV vans were pouring into the area coming the other way. Her film was in the soup before they were even set up. :)

 

Later that Bay of Pigs tragedy occured.

[saskphotog]

Cynics are just frustrated idealists.

 

I see lots of sunsets in some very nice places where others are madly clicking and chimping away, and I find myself saying I just don't need another picture of such a sunset. Is that cynical? Visually savy?

 

I deliberately try to not photograph cliche. Is that cynical?

 

On the other hand, my mother-in-law one recent Christmas threw (literally) together a few trays of random old slides (some over 50 years old) and the family sat enthralled wih faded, badly exposed, badly lit, trite images for an hour and a half. We talked about the old cars, houses, wondered who the hell that was, and had a great time. Were those images worthwhile?

 

So I take lots of "documentary" snapshots of our lives. Does that make me a romantic?

 

I'm a discriminating artist (or so I imagine), but I know I have no idea what will be "worthwhile" in 40 years. I have also learned that I have no idea what will sell as stock, so I shoot lots of strange stuff there too.

 

It is certainly possible to become so curmudgeonly that we miss out on good times and good photographs. I think photography (or any art form) has the potential to mitigate or even prevent progression into cynicism, but there are many other aspects of one's life that have influence. Who you bring to your photography is as important as the act of photographing.

[h._p.]

"t is certainly possible to become so curmudgeonly that we miss out on good times and good photographs."

 

Very true, Larry. The secret is to learn by heart that marvellous piece of pig-Latin: 'Illegitimis Nill Carborundum".

[edgreene]

50 years in the craft jades one. You have to search your own archives and your jaws get tight when you realize the flower you waited on until the bloom and the light was right to shoot has already been shown on 3 gazillion web pages. Clouds-bugs-tractors; pink cheeks and pink cheeks: smiling eyes and teeth. <br>461,000 shots for me and drumming up some ``inspiration`` becomes drudgery.<p>Some people think they have seen that before, whatever <b><i><u>that</u></i></b> is: you have, in 3,182 shades of blah.<p>You think some new gear will sharpen the eye, find that elusive ``something`` your old 00-00mm zoom or not quite fast enough 00mm prime just cannot seem to capture.<br>But your new ``Robocamera`` and gee-golly whizfloozer lens will put you over the top yes sir! <p>And you bolt them all together and shoot and ``AW-SHOOT``: same old sixes and sevens.<p>A new addition to your editing arsenal might do it: Photoshop to the max, every other ``post processing`` trick learned and perfected; ready, shoot - sh|t!<p>One more portrait session, one more candid shot of some pretty stranger and a few shots on bugs, anything to keep busy until that 200mm f/2.0 TS - IS Macro arrives. <br>Shivers run up and down your spine as your turn on the gear and you hear those satisfying noises: ``Steady``-snap! DAMMITALLTOHELL!<p>I admire those who can persevere in the face of so much adversity, produce sterling images in spite of the drudge.<p> The only ``fun`` I have these days is shooting the Grands: they and their mothers think I`m a flippin` genius: and some days-these days, that is enough.

[saskphotog]

With Age Wisdom

 

http://home.cogeco.ca/~rayser3/wisdom.txt