Which filter to enhance clouds?

[TomHildreth]

On a sunny day I normally use a yellow K2 filter to darken the sky

when I'm shooting B&W. On a cloudy day with no filter I often get an

off-white sky devoid of any cloud detail in my prints. In the future

I intend to scan the negatives rather than print them, so burning in

the sky isn't an option, at least in the traditional sense. What

filter can I use on the camera lens on a cloudy day that will retain

at least some of the detail in the cloud bank? I guess I could

experiment with the yellow filter on and off with a few frames, but

surely someone reading this can save me the trouble and tell me what

works.

[aardvarko]

to decrease contrast: use the same color as your subject.

 

to increase contrast: use the opposite color of your subject.

 

so, to increase the contrast of clouds, use orange-red (opposite of cyan). red is close enough to work well.

[randall ellis]

I am sure that others will jump in with more detailed answers but according to what I have seen using filters, the darker the filter, the more pronounced the clouds get. Red filters create strong clouds while light yellow filters create weak clouds. A yellow-orange or orange filter may be what you are looking for to get clouds that scan well.

 

- Randy

[titrisol]

polarizer + orange or red

[bruce_watson1]

If there's blue sky showing, a yellow, orange, or red filter. These filters will darken the blue to varying degrees and therefore increase the contrast between the clouds and the blue sky.

 

If there is no blue showing - full overcast, there are no filters that will help.

 

If you are scanning, most photoeditors do have dodge and burn tools, often more flexible and tunable than what you could do in the darkroom. For example, if there are streaks of clouds that are somewhat darker than others, you can bring that out some by burning just the midtones. Try that in the darkroom ;-)

[john_cook1]

Your question is "what filter on a cloudy day"? No filter works unless the sky is blue and the clouds white.

 

The traditional solution to having nice clouds on an overcast day photo is to go out on the next nice day and shoot lots of sky pictures with your yellow filter. Only anal people who make detailed household inventories in case of fire or other insured loss have the foresight to do this.

 

Then double print those pretty sky images into your photographs using a black dodging/burning cardboard cut to the shape of the horizon to eliminate the unwanted stuff from each negative. Pay attention to which direction the sun is shining on the clouds and match it to the sun's direction on the ground. Or flop the cloud negative, so the shadows on the ground match the shadows on the clouds.

 

If you look closely, you will find the exact same cloud showing up in every landscape picture some photographers make.

 

I care to know nothing about digital photography, but from what I have heard from the geeks this process will be somewhat easier with photoshop than with the traditional burning/dodging technique.

[StuartMoxham]

On a cloudy day with no blue in the sky take advantage of the soft light and shoot some portraits instead much better than having a featureless white sky on a landscape shot.

[r_hofland]

On a sunny day I normally use a yellow K2 filter to darken the sky when I'm shooting B&W. On a cloudy day with no filter I often get an off-white sky devoid of any cloud detail in my prints."

 

Deep Orange or various Reds ought to help, but only on the existing degree of contrast in the clouds themselves-- if the cloudiness is flat (overcast), then the filters won't have much effect. However, if there already is visible contrast in the clouds, then a orange or red filter should enhance that since the differential between highlights and the "shadows" in the clouds should deepen further.

[Sandeha Lynch]

You'll need to experiment as it depends a little on where in the world you are, and what lenses you're using. Winter light in Wales and I was recently using an orange on a Planar 80mm and a red on a Sonnar 150mm and getting pretty much the same effect.

[Troll]

People who still call a medium yellow "a K2" are too old and set in their ways to be allowed to print their photos on a computer.

[bernard_odonovan]

http://www.schneideroptics.com/filters/filters_for_still_photography/handbook/

 

hoya do a good book too.

[TomHildreth]

Thanks for your responses. On average, the masses seem to feel there is no way to improve cloud detail on an overcast day with B&W films. So, I'll just stay inside and rearrange my shoe closet (or negative files) and read a page or two from the latest AARP bulletin. Sounds fun.

[richard_trochlil]

"...People who still call a medium yellow "a K2" are too old and set in their ways to be allowed to print their photos on a computer..."

 

Careful how you talk. I can remember when Verichrome became Verichrome Pan. Now that is a long time ago. (Shucks, I can hear people asking; "What is Verichrome Pan?"}

 

It's K2 filter for me.

[david_henderson]

I agree its tough to increase the contrast within the sky if you have little visible differentiation. It isn't difficult to ensure that get whatever there is though and avoid a white out with ND grads.

[funkag]

I've had good luck getting overcast-cloud details with an orange filter. Also, you might want to try the orange plus a neutral graduated filter.

[funkag]

Also, don't forget that you can burn and dodge in Photoshop, and I've had good results with cloud details (after using the orange filter).

[lowell_huff1]

I have several large photographs featuring clouds and land or sea scapes, shot with infrared film and the results are spectactular.

[test11664875106]

The problem of complete overcast day is that you have low contrast in your shadows and midtones (mostly what's on the ground), also low contrast within clouds, but you have very high contrast between sky and the ground. Because clouds are mostly gray, filters won't help. One thing you can try is reduced development of the film to get the clouds a bit down from the density shoulder (where density doesn't change much as you increase exposure), this will improve separation between clouds just a little bit, and will also reduce contrast between sky and ground parts of the scene. Second step is to print with high-contrast filter or on high-contrast paper. You need both of this steps else photos look really dead flat. When exposing film, check that sky is within 6 to 9 steps from the darkest parts of the scene.

 

I've made few photos this way and results are satisfactory. They don't ressemble high-constrast sky/clouds of a bright day, but they do show the mood of an overcast day.

 

If you intend to scan (as opposed to darkroom printing), described method most likely won't work as it will render negative so flat in terms of densities that scanner won't pick-up difference between adjacent values easily.

[david_henderson]

"The problem of complete overcast day is that you have low contrast in your shadows and midtones (mostly what's on the ground), also low contrast within clouds, but you have very high contrast between sky and the ground. Because clouds are mostly gray, filters won't help."

 

This isn't right. ND grads can help a lot in these circumstances to reduce the excessive contrast between sky and ground. If you stop this issue dominating the photograph, what little you have in the sky/on the ground has a greater chance to make an impact.

[paul ron]

"If you are scanning, most photoeditors do have dodge and burn tools, often more flexible and tunable than what you could do in the darkroom. For example, if there are streaks of clouds that are somewhat darker than others, you can bring that out some by burning just the midtones. Try that in the darkroom"

 

Now that just isn't true. Split filtering allows me to do amzing things in the darkroom.

 

Go red or orange in various degrees for controlling the darkening the blue sky to make clouds more pronounced otherwise a polarizer is the way to go.

 

K2 is the only yellow filter I have are there others now? have they made a Pan film too? When? Gee, I'll have to get some.

 

Enjoy!

[test11664875106]

David, I ment filters like yellow, orange, red, green.

[jay_capodiferro]

Graduated Neutral Density filter plus burning in the sky when printing will give you exactly what you want.

[arraga]

<p>

I believe this comes from an Adams book (the negative? can't remember and can't be bothered to look it up in my copy)...

 

<p>

On the old days of orthocromatic films, the sky would always be featureless white (or black earth, you choose)... some photographers had a 'library' of cloud negatives, and would print the two negatives together.

 

<p> I would wait for another day. If that's impossible, take the shot and pray. Maybe an UFO just crosses the sky and saves the image.