allan_schoening Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 I'm interested in trying this out, could anyone give a good film/developer/time combination? My films of choice are Tri-X, HP5 and Acroos...but I'm down to try anything. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich815 Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 A serious question: why do you want to try it out? Really, what are you trying to accomplish that "normal" developing will not get for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffery_pool Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 I get beautiful (to my eyes) HP5+ 35mm negs when developed with high dilutions of hc110 and agitated once every 3-5 minutes. Lots of people say 35mm doesn't work well with stand development but for 8x10s I don't see much grain objectionable grain at all. experiment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffery_pool Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 "Really, what are you trying to accomplish that "normal" developing will not get for you?" I find that with higher dilutions and longer developing times my negatives print the full tonal range a lot easier and with a lot less dodging and burning than with the normal development settings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pics Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 I agree with Jeffery. I use reduced agitation for all of my MF work as well as with with medium or slow speed 35mm. The benefits are an increase in true emulsion speed, compensating effect and an increase in acutance or visible sharpness. With available light shooting, the negatives print much easier without alot of dodge/burn fiascos. I also find that I get true box speed without the need to over expose/underdevelop. Grain is a subjective thing but I draw the line at 400 speed films with 35mm. To me it becomes obtrusive at this point with reduced agitation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_waller Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Although never having tried stand development, if the subject matter is contrasty, I reduce agitation from once every 30 seconds to once per minute or even once every 2 minutes. I use Rodinal at 1:50, but for stand development, dilutions of 1:200 or 1:300 are recommended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randall ellis Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 I've never done semi-stand, but Rodinal @1:200 with Tri-X, HP5+, and FP4+ work well right at one hour with 30 seconds initial agitation only. - Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico_digoliardi Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 I use stand development with Agfa APX 100 (I'm down to my last case of it) in 120 ONLY when N-1 is warranted. The outcomes are beautiful. Rodinal 1:150 for 45 minutes, two rolls to a two-roll Nikkor tank and Nikkor reels. In that dilution and quantity of developer it becomes an "expiration" process. You can develop for an hour with no difference. Agitate and knock off the bubbles in the first minute. No further agitation. I've not had the same success with other films yet. I cannot get the same contrast in the shadows. However, it could be my own error. Still working on it for Efke 25 and next with Tri-X. While we are on the subject, what would you folks suggest as a replacement for APX 100? I'd prefer a 'name' brand rather than another Adox clone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowell_huff1 Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 I can not agree more with Richard's response. If you want better imaging, get a better developer and/or a film that meets the requirements of the situation. "we make it black and white.... and better." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 I don't think the original poster, Allan, specified "better" as a qualification anywhere in his original question. If he wishes to experiment for the sake of it, that's reason enough. "Better" is subjective. Some photographers have used experimental techniques to produce photographs that might "fail" in the eyes of their peers but succeed with viewers. Sometimes "better" is a personal aesthetic, not a technical achievement. I prefer a highly concentrated liquid like Rodinal at 1:200 or so for around 2 hours. There are some examples in my photo.net folders. It's possible that similar or comparable results could be accomplished with other concentrates including HC-110. However I would first try Rodinal or one of the substitutes (including the homebrewed versions). I tried highly dilute Ilfosol-S but got more fog and grain than I wanted. With more work it might produce usable results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay_de_fehr Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 In film development, time/temperature/dilution/agitation are all variables. By varying the relationships between these variables, a range of results can be obtained. Reducing agitation is as valid as reducing development time, increasing dilution, etc., and the effect of one is not identical to the effects of the others. For Lowell to suggest that switching developers is preferrable to working within the variables with a given developer is pure nonsense, and salesmanship. If D-76 gives too much contrast at 10 minutes, should we switch to another developer that gives less contrast at 10 minutes, or reduce development time with D-76? To truly learn the potential of any developer, one must know how changing any of the variables will affect the outcome, including reduced agitation. Semi-stand, or reduced agitation development is not strictly limited to large formats, or slow films either. Excellent results can be had by matching the film and developer to the work at hand. Allan, I don't use commercially made developers, so I can't recommend one to you, but if you're interested in making up your own developer from bulk chemicals, let me know, and I'll recommend some good developer formulae for your purposes. I applaud your curiosity, and encourage you to follow it through. Good luck. Jay<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allan_schoening Posted May 30, 2006 Author Share Posted May 30, 2006 Lex is right on the button. I'm just interested in doing for the sake of doing it...I think it could be fun and I'm interested in the results. Jay, thanks for the offer. I'll let you know about the custom chemistry. For right now I think I'll stick with good old HC-110. They don't make Rodinal any more, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pics Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 Rodinal is alive and well. Production of Agfa chemistry has been picked up by A+O and you can get it at Freestylephoto as well as numerous other retailers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich815 Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 No one's trying to squelch any creatively here, so relax everyone. Oftentimes understanding why someone wants to do something and what result they are after or trying to accomplish certainly would aid in those trying to offer suggestions or help. Further, perhaps exploring where any dissatisfaction with other methods, might there be any, would also help along the same lines. No? Lex, do you really consider 1:200 to be "highly concentrated"? Or did you mean to say highly diluted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nealcurrie Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 nice picture jay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanky Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Just a quick question that has always weighed on my mind regarding stand and semi-stand development. That is how does one maintain the temp? It's getting pretty warm in LA these days and a two hour development time will raise up the temp significantly. It's almost 80 degrees in my kitchen right now. Will this change from 68 to room temp have any side effects that we should consider? Thanks, Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay_de_fehr Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Marc, a few things; there's no reason semi-stand development has to take 2 hrs. The image I posted was developed 14min. @ 80F, which brings me to my other point; there's no reason negs have to be developed at 68F. If your room temp is 80F, develop @ 80F, and compensate by reducing development time. If you're using extremely dilute developer, and developing to exhaustion, it will exhaust more quickly at a higher temp. Developing beyond the point of exhaustion can lead to fogging, so some testing should be done to determine the point of exhaustion. Jay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefan heymann Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 Ilford HP5+ in Kodak HC-110 Dil. B: Continuous agitation for the first minute, 2 inversions after 4 minutes, development time 7.5 minutes. <a href="http://www.stefanheymann.de/galerie/pam/page-pam-2005-11.htm">Example</a> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flaviosganzerla Posted May 31, 2006 Share Posted May 31, 2006 OT: Stefan, would you mind saying how you 'toned' this picture in Photoshop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefan heymann Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 Flᶩo, this is printed on Forte Polywarmtone RC paper and developed with a warmtone developer. I scanned the print as a color scan so no toning was necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flaviosganzerla Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 OT: Thanks! I suspect something like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted June 1, 2006 Share Posted June 1, 2006 Richard: Yup, I intended to write highly dilute, not concentrated. Too many distractions at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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