What do you find worth documenting?

[Alex_Es]

Donald makes an interesting point regarding my photograph. It is

only a guy and a gal on the bridge if you don't know the background.

If you are Japanese and especially if you live in Osaka you will be

likely to read it immediately. This is the problem with documentary

photography. One photo usually doesn't do it. A series of photos

won't do it a lot of times. In a case like my project you need

words.

 

Note that the guy is holding a clipboard. He is doing some sort of

work. But for legal reasons I cannot suggest what it might be.

 

In the case of touts, it is hard for the uninitiated to understand

what is going on. Even with shots where you see the tauts touching

women you my not know what is really happening without explanation.

A picture is not always worth a 1000 words. The combination of words

and photographs is problematic because there is always a chance of

being sued.

 

Writing my 2002 article on the bridge for The East I expeced to write

no more than 500 words and let the photos speak for themselves.

Instead I wrote an article of about 4000 words for which the photos

played only a supportive role.

 

Documentation requires words coming from somewhere, though maybe not

the photographer.

 

Gotta rush.

[abufletcher]

Alex, I suppose this is the difference between "communicating" something to

someone who already knows something ("wink wink, nudge, nudge") as

opposed to communicating it to an outsider -- which I feel is the real goal of

documentary photography. It shouldn't require insider ("member") knowledge

to "read" a photograph. Well, maybe that's not completely true...but one

should at least be able to follow the plot from the photographs alone.

 

I agree that photos and word can stand in a symbiotic relationship to one

another but each should remainsa whole and complete organism.

[abufletcher]

Takaaki, Takamatsu is the "big city" about a 30 minute drive away. Zentsuji is

a small temple, and now university, town known mostly as the birthplace of

Kobodaishi.

 

Yeah after you've had Sanuki-udon, udon in the rest of Japan seems kind of

mushy!

[mtreinik]

Here are some of my answers to the original question:

 

<ul>

<li>Something you have a good opportunity to photograph (family, neighborhood).

<li>Something that hasn't been photographed a lot (changing things, individual people, current period of time).

<li>Something that may later have value (memories, vanishing things, new phenomena).

<li>Something that many people would be interested to see (exceptional phenomena, important events).

<li>Something in which photographing it brings pleasure.

<li>Something of which you would hang a picture on the wall.

</ul>

 

Thanks for bringing up an important discussion.

[erin.e]

A good thread, I am a reportage style photographer and have some newspaper experience. We have a biennial Airshow here that has only been going for a few years, its the third major show coming up at the end of this month. It has the potential to be a World Class event of this type, and The New Zealand Govt has recognised this by granting $2 million NZ towards a Heritage Aircraft Museum for WW1 fighter aircraft at the Omaka Aerodrome, as a permanant tourist display.

 

Of course cameras and aircraft attract each other like flies to dung, but all the cameras, amateur and professional, are pointed at the aircraft, on the ground or in the sky. I supply images to a picture agency and a couple of papers so get a press pass for entry.

 

I have also offered to do a documentary of the complete event for the organisers, both behind the scenes prior to, afterwards, and the event itself, providing them with a record and useful promotional archive material that they may use free of charge. Many local people are involved as volunteers to bring the whole thing off. Getting the message across of my actual intent has been rather difficult as some local politics are involved, as well as internationally famous aviation photographers, who have a different agenda to me.

 

I do personally know many of the locals involved. I will quote your very succinct paragraph to the chairman of the organising committee when he rings me back next week to invite me to a committee meeting so I can see exactly who does what. I do not intend to become an official photographer, rather one with a roaming brief. All I need is the sanction of the boss!

 

Quote "There is also the issue of to what degree a documentary photographer needs to interact with his/her subjects. My own feeling on this is that ultimately you have to have at least the tacit acceptance of the main subjects. This is not quite the same as formal permission to take photos. It's more like an unspoken acceptance that you are there and are going to go on being there and that you have a camera and will be using it. The photographer has got to be come more than just a disconnected observer, s/he needs to become a silent partner in the interaction."

 

Thanks Donald!

[abufletcher]

Erin, man I would kill to be able to get down to the Omaka Aerodrome! My

other hobby (and that's all photography is to me at the moment) is WWI scale

RC modeling. I believe you have a replica Pfalz DIII down there in NZ

(actually the one used in the movie Blue Max) and I think there is also a nice

Bristol Fighter (F2B). I'd appreciate seeing just as many close up shots of just

as many WWI birds as you can photograph! How about putting up a personal

gallery. I'm planning on doing a Pfalz DIIIa next.<div></div>

[abufletcher]

Moderators, please feel free to delete as OT. Sorry, just got carried away.

[erin.e]

Yes the Pfalz is flying now, just test flown this week and the only one in existence. I do have a few from the last airshow in my pnet folder will do another folder from this show.

[abufletcher]

BTW, Erin, the quote you attribute to me, is like most things anyone says a

rehash of things he or she has heard somewhere else. I think this one's a

pretty close paraphrase of something Bill Allard says either in the Master

Photographer series book or on one of the NG videos.

 

"None of us can fathom the true depths of the plagiarism is our discourse" --

another quote by someone I don't remember.

[erin.e]

Oh yes, nice eindecker Donald!

[Alex_Es]

The reason we bother to document anything (re: Donald) is because most of us are outsiders. All people become outsider to an event over time. The greater the distance between us and the event the less we understand it. Hence, the need for words. Walker Evans's photograph of the boots in "Let Us Now Praise Famous Men" would simply be old boots if we did not know the context in which those boots were photographed. Ideally, of course, the pictures should speak for themselves. Realistically, the pictures need words from somewhere to make us understand what is going on. Sometimes we need only a few words like, "El Capitan, Yosemite National Park, California, c. 1937" (Anel Adams, "The Print," page 39). Sometimes we need more.

 

A rough distinction must be made between "street" (i.e. candid) photography and documentary photography, though there are overlaps. The former is a quasi-fiction that captures a moment and creatures an epiphany. We usually do not care about the subject beyond the captured moment. Documentary photography is linked to a social issue of some sort that is usually more important than the photograph per se, be it war, poverty or something personal like the decline and death of a loved one (like Araki's documentation of his wife's battle with cancer). As I said, there are overlaps, examples of which no doubt come readily to everyone's mind.

[abufletcher]

Alex, you make some good points here -- points I suspect that writers would

have a particular sympathy with. I'll agree that photos can take on a much

deeper meaning once a context is communicated, either in words or by the

visual contextualization of the image.

 

Still, I believe the the story of the touts on the bridge (and indeed the larger

story of "arranged dating"), as an example, CAN be told in photos -- but it

would be a real challenge. More than I could handle for sure. But maybe not

more than a serious photojournalist on a multi-month assignment could

acheive. When you look at the winning photo essays in the POY contest It's

not just a bunch of visually stunning photos. It's a bunch of visually stunning

photos that most of us would never have been able to access. Most of us

really don't have what it takes to do a story like this. Photographic skills are

the very least of it.

 

You have to be able to get on the inside of a story like that -- and that would

be a serious challenge. There's a reason why it was Jodi Cobb who was

chosen to shoot the NG story on the women of Saudi Arabia. Sure she's an

outstanding photographer -- but the key factor here was that she is an

outstanding FEMALE photographer. Same with Reza shooting the story on

Hajj (if I remember correctly).

 

BTW, here's a story from here in Japan that I'll like to shoot, but I know it just

isn't ever going to happen. I'd like to photograph what goes on in those dark

military-looking buses that go around blarring nationalist songs. Actually, I

know the basic story here and with a little casual investigation could probably

come up with enough information to write a short article on the subject. But

the chances that I as a "foreign devil" could gain access to one of these

yakusa-connected bastions of ultra-nationalism are pretty darn slim. Sort of

like an African-American photographer deciding s/he would like to do a photo

essay on the KKK today.

 

The fact that I can't tell this story photographically however shouldn't be taken

to mean that is is untellable except in words. Words are fine and words are

good but they can't take the place of photographs.

[abufletcher]

I'd also like to comment on your suggestion that words are needed in order for

people displaced in time or distance from the subject of a photo to understand

the photo. I think this can be true. But then I'd also say that the photograph in

question does not do an adequate job of communicating to those specific

viewers anymore. It doesn't speak to them. And that's not their fault.

 

Photographs once they pass into the realm of historical documents frequently

can't be "read" by modern viewers without textual assistence. This is the

same rationale given for teaching the historical context of classic literature.

But I never cared for that either. I figure if a piece of art (literature, painting,

photograph, sculpture, etc) doesn't communicate to ("thinking") people in the

modern world without an introduction well it's not really all that great anymore.

 

I suppose what we're talking about here is elitism in art. Ansel Adams said

that most people couldn't see a "fine print" and in that sense his photographs

are lost on most people -- except those photographic illiterates who just

happen to like the scenery. I think that's a shame. I'd like my images to

communicate to as wide an audience as possible. I certainly what them to be

"readable" to people outside of Japan.

[jon w.]

I photograph modern aspects of the city of Venice, where I usually stay for 2-3 months a year. I've given up photographing anything or anywhere else, because I have nothing to say about other subjects.

[abufletcher]

Jonathan, I'm curious. What is it you feel you have to say about the city of

Venice that wouldn't have to say about any other place on earth? I'm sure

that Venice is a stunningly visual city (never been there) but is there

something unique about this city that speaks to you in such a special

manner?

[abufletcher]

BTW, thinking of words vs. photos, 15 years ago when I doing travel

photojournalistic pieces for the Mexican magazine Geomundo, for example, a

piece on the reunification of the Yemens, I'd write an 6,000-10,000 word

article in Spanish and supply the photos. Well, I can pretty much immediately

call to mind each of the photos that were published but I can't remember more

than a couple phrases of my own text!

[Uhooru]

Donald, I'd examine your mind set about words w/photos. I try to think of them as just another element, sometimes they enhance, sometimes they limit, and sometimes they create a new thing that's more than (and sometimes less) and different than the two seperately.

[abufletcher]

Barry, I'm really not "anti-word" (as you can tell from my wordy postings) at all -

- in fact, I was told flat out by one NG photographer (at a photography

seminar) that I was a better writer than photographer. Ouch. That may be

true and I might not even be that good of a writer!

 

I just hate to see weak photos explained away by saying that you've got to

have text. Imagine a writer claiming that his text is incomprehensible without

the photos.

[Alex_Es]

<center><img src="http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/2351230-lg.jpg"></

center>

[Alex_Es]

Are words necessary?

[abufletcher]

Alex, first I do think this is a much better photograph than the last one and

communicates more information. But it's still shot with a telephoto (or is

heavily cropped) and is still from an "outsider's" perspective. I'm not saying I

could have done any better. This kind of stuff is notoriously difficult to get on

film. But if we could have seen something more of the expression on the

woman's face as the guy touches her shoulder maybe this could have told

more of the story. Maybe some sequence of photos showing him "pursuing"

her. Sometimes photo editors refer to pictures like this as "point pictures" --

photos that may not be as strong aesthetically as others in the layout but that

warrant inclusion because of the "point" they make.

 

BTW, I don't have any idea how I'd go about getting on the inside of a story

like this. But I think I'd start by asking myself what it would take to shoot this

story with a 35mm lens.

[Alex_Es]

If you know anything about editors you know that there is no unified

view among them. What is aesthetically relevant to one editor is

only a "point" to another and a waste of time to another. The above

shot is in a series of four that can be viewed in my Gallery

portfolio. In the sequence you do not see the woman's face but her

body language makes up for it (in my view). The point I want to make

about this shot is that when it first appeared with the other three

in the Leica forum a few years ago no one seemed to know what was

going on, except that a guy was obviously picking up on a gal.

That's when I had to do a culural doubletake and think, yeah, this

dating club thing is probably out of everyone's experience.

 

One could do an in-dept study of the skin trade in Japan and it would

be worth doing. This is not what I was doing. I was recording the

life on Ebisu Bridge. The bridge is the main character. It has its

major players and supporting players. How a final presentation of

all of this will be is an open question. Feedback like Donald's and

the verbal dialectic is useful to me in in regard to structuring a

book or exhibition on the bridge.

[erin.e]

There seems to be a mindset among a section of photographers that Documentary photography must entail pathos to be successful, e.g. The dustbowl Farm Administration work, Smith and mercury scandal at Minimoto, wars, famines etc etc. While there are standout examples of documentary photography in this genre, the discipline should be directed at recording the human condition in all forms, in a interesting picture essay format.

 

People engaging in socially positive activities is also a valuable aspect. A chronological flow of the event sometimes helps the viewer follow the story if that option is available to the photographer. Or perhaps a close scrutiny of a certain aspect of the happening may be more suitable. Can be self commissioned or done to order.

 

Of course, an ego well under control, plus good editorial photography and people skills on the photographers part are some essential components so that a publishable portfolio of images can be put together by who ever commissions the work.

 

Tens of thousands of very competent photographers worldwide do just this all the time, without beating themselves over the head and setting themselves up for dissapointment because they are not Eugene Smith or some other iconic example.

 

In many case's this type of work is for select groups of society and does not get wide coverage, but is important for historical reasons

[abufletcher]

I don't really know all that much about editors other than as you say they are

as different from each other as photographers are. Also I didn't mean to be

picking apart your photos in particular but just trying to make us (all)

challenge ourselves to make our photos speak to the viewers with as much

information as possible.

 

I once wrote a piece on the "Lost city of Ubar" (the Koranic equivalent of

Sodom and Gomorrah destroyed by the wrath of Allah) which had just been

rediscovered in the deserts of Oman thanks partly to LANDSAT imagery.

Well, I drove some 20 hours (much of it off-road) to get out to this very remote

site so that I could take some photos for the article. And while I got 4-5

worthwhile photos, this was a story that really did have to be told in words.

[abufletcher]

Erin, couldn't agree more!