do you guys mind if we send readers from the home page here?

[philg]

Folks who use this forum:

 

We're experimenting with a new home page, designed to be easier for new readers,

and would like to send people with digital camera shopping questions to this

forum. Would you guys mind helping them out?

 

Basically this means the moderators have to refrain from deleting questions (at

least without answering them). And the rest of you have to bite your tongue and

not heap ridicule on the guys who want to know whether a Digital Rebel is "worth

the money" or why the kit lens won't turn them into Ansel Adams.

 

Willing to be inundated for a month or two?

[peterblaise]

.

 

YES, bring on those newbies with "beginner's mind" -- and may I ascend to their innocence and learn much from their nascent vision.

 

But, may I also suggest doing more than just warning us.

 

How about polishing up the posting automation where the SUBJECT line in a potential post is listed as a blank to fill in AFTER the body content has been filed in so that the person submitting has a chance to see what they wrote first before writing their supposed HEADLINE? Then when it gets posted, of course, put the HEADLINE up top for us all to read. Even I (for shame) may start off with a numbing subject line like: "A question ..." and only later realize I have content within my post that would make a MUCH better description to lead people into my inquiry. I think if we're forced to write our SUBJECT line last. then we'll put more info into it.

 

Also, please allow the co-moderators to EDIT existing subject lines and body content rather then just leaving goofs or deleting entire posts or threads.

 

Otherwise, Philip, we're here to learn, and if someone else learns from our learning, well, that's the point, isn't it?

 

;-)

 

 

Click!

 

Love and hugs,

 

Peter Blaise peterblaise@yahoo.com Minolta Rokkor Alpha DiMage (and Nikon and Canon and Contax and et cetera) Photographer http://www.peterblaisephotography.com/

[mars c]

I'm willing to cooperate.

[emwalker]

We're inundated already, and I doubt that people will stop hoping against hope that new users will take their own initiative in doing their 'homework' on buying a new camera. given the number of iterations of *every* question under the sun regarding the camera/lens/memory/flash/monitor/processor/tripod/software/little screen thingy/cleaning brush/bullet/gun/coffin they should buy already archived in these forums, I think it is probably a good thing that new members are occasionally gently encouraged to use the search feature. And whaddya mean the kit lens won't turn me into Ansel Adams? I'll be nice. Bring 'em on!

[digitmstr]

>>why the kit lens won't turn them into Ansel Adams.<<

 

AH-that's what it is! I have to return my lens immediately...

 

Since the answers would have to confrom to a set of rules, as you sateted, and...since it would be ONLY about shopping how about creating a digicam shooping forum, solely dedicated to "what camera should I buy" questions?

 

It would help sorting out technical questions from shopping question since people VERY seldom use descriptive headers in their posts.

 

So, my reponse would be: create a forum exclusively for Digital Cameras Shopping questions.

[phule]

I can hear the gnashing of the teeth now... :)

 

It would be far better, IMHO, if there were some sort of FAQ for this forum. Even a page with a collection of links to photo.net searches with key words would be something.

 

There's no real way to predict how this forum would change with a direct link from the main page. One could argue that those wanting to ask oft repeated questions already find there way here, so what harm could there really be in this?

 

Provided existing users are not banned for asking new users to search before posting, then I'm all for it :)

[CharlesBecker-Toronto]

wouldn't general photography (non-archived) be a better place? It is already described as where most "what should I buy?" "what's the best...?" and "how does my camera work" questions belong as well as topical questions of no long term interest. cb

[bill_fouche]

Phillip, this is a perfect opportunity for me to say thank you for your wonderful contributions in building this site in the early days. Photo.net - and your articles in particular - are what fanned my spark for photography into a flame not so long ago. I will be forever grateful.

 

On the topic at hand, I vote "no." What I like about photo.net, and what separates this site from DPR, for example, is the high percentage of experienced photographers who offer input. And the high percentage of interesting questions that this generates. Monkeying with this by encouraging "what camera should I buy" questions seems unwise to me.

[philg]

I've got a user interface designer and a programmer already tasked on fixing the /bboard user interface. It should be possible to have an FAQ on each forum, for example, as well as better tools for admin and browsing.

[philg]

Oh yes, regarding the suggestion to create a new forum... No new forums! I'm looking for forums to kill/consolidate right now! Too much fragmented discussion. I think what might be interesting are subcommunities of people in a particular geographical area or people who like to take pictures of the same kind of thing. But as far as a discussion forum for the entire community, I want to try to use/rename the ones we've got.

[don_e]

Philip,

 

The forum already has a "comparison shopping" category; some way to tag the kinds of posts you refer to with that label might help even more, and be easier than policing or re-writing the subject line.

 

Nobody reads FAQs. If they did, a site's traffic would drop precipitously.

 

The real issue are the posters who will make one (1) post asking their overbroad and uninformative question (probably the same question they've asked at a number of other sites) and never contribute again including responding to the replies received, and, of course, never becoming a member.

 

Possibly some restrictions on non-members might be applied...

 

If we're to be "inundated", I think I'll check to see whether the poster has made other posts to forums different than what we called "do my homework for me please" posts on usenet, before I'd respond.

Taking the trouble to put a few photos in their gallery would also encourage a response.

 

I began here in May asking a comparitive shopping question and was grateful for the intelligent and knowledgable replies, and joined up.

 

It would have been a different story altogether if my post encouraged the thought "Oh, yet another clueless idiot", and no one replied.

 

Regards,

 

Don E

[jeffcallen]

I think this is an opportunity to think about use cases. New readers may want to see somebody like them, not just a list of posts and questions and answers. I'd like to see use-cases excerpted - like highlighted users, for example you might have "Joe/Jane's Journey" with interview with Joe or Jane about how they progressed from shooting kids with a point and shoot digicam to learning about off-camera lighting and shooting sports and neighbors portraits with a DSLR. People long for personality, and sometimes discussion boards provide it in spades, but sometimes web-builders think engineering-esque and users want personality and stories. That's what I loved about the early photo net, the stories and personality.

 

Maybe after a month or two, you'll have a "greatest hits" collection of posts and responses, then you might rotate them in a box on the home page, like a big Q: How do I.... A:You can.... (read more)

[jeffcallen]

To answer the question directly, yes, I'd be willing. I used to work in a camera store, and I've taught at 3 colleges and art schools. I found open-minded beginners much easier to talk with than "photo-veteran" people wanting to look smart.... beginners mind is the key to fast learning too sometimes. The instructors challenge is to adress the questioners concerns on THEIR own terms, in regards to THEIR own situation, not the situation or assumptions of the answerer.

[basscheffers]

I would say bring 'em on!

 

While you are working on the bboard system, a very welcome addition would be a box (on

the homepage? otherwise in My Workspace) that displays "Threads you have participated in

with recent follow up posts". That would save people setting many email alerts.

 

The current one in My workspace (your questions and questions you have expressed an

interest in) only displays the things I don't really care about as both obviously send me

email alerts when something interesting happens.

 

Maybe you could have a public "tasks" list people could check before making suggestions

like I just did? It'll stop people asking for things already in the pipeline while at the same

time giving us things to look forward to.

[don_e]

"Inundated"

 

If there are 6 or so posts daily here of the sort: 'Help me find the best digi for me', I am going to read them and maybe respond if I have any info that may be useful, but if there are 60, then I'll just pass on them all. Time is money.

 

--

 

Don E

[ian_tindale]

You could always send 'em to the Leica area by default.

[p.c._d.]

I read this, then went away and thought about it a bit. My thoughts weren�t really along the lines of whether this would create an inundation of �what camera should I buy� questions, but more �how can we present the answer to that question in the most efficient fashion�? I don�t think that directing people to this forum from the home page will do the trick. I�ve noticed, from reading other threads that when someone asks this question, the answers they get aren�t really (IMO) helpful. The vast majority of respondents �plug� their own favorite brand without really giving any reasoning behind their responses. Since 90% of the market is Canon and Nikon, those two brands represent 90% (or more!) of the responses. That�s disturbing to me because those cameras are not in everyone�s budget, and there are many other manufacturers who make quality cameras, but just aren�t as well-known. That means we�re not giving the newbie a fair way to evaluate their question because there�s a vocal majority that drowns out the less-vocal minority. That doesn�t mean that there isn�t something in the minority that wouldn�t make a perfect match with the person asking the question!</p>

 

My suggestion is a link on the home page to a chart listing the specifications, price, features, etc. of the different brands (not models). Within that chart, there can be links for �more details� on specific popular models. The information therein could be based on a template (for standardization) and written by someone who owns, uses, and is proficient in that brand/model camera. This will be limited to a few (2-3) models per manufacturer. The person writing the review should list the pros, cons, features, �what I like/don�t like about this camera�, tips, etc. The template will ensure consistency, and the limit to the number of models & having them written by one or two people only will prevent the Canon vs. Nikon wars (and similar) that so many of the threads degenerate into. Having all major manufacturers represented will give the newbie a fair cross-selection of makes & models.</p>

 

And, then, from within the �more details� information pages, there can be another link �If you have further questions� that will take the person directly to forum dedicated to that camera manufacturer (Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Kodak, whatever) � not to a general forum where they�ll get all kinds of conflicting information. The specific manufacturer�s forums are full of people who actually like and use the make/model they�re interested in & can speak knowledgeably about it.</p>

 

If someone should ask the question in one of the general forums, this would also provide a single point to which the responses can direct that person, instead of just telling them to �search P-net�. This chart may be more involved to create at the beginning, but once it�s set up, it won�t require much maintenance, no moderator, no postings, etc. � just updates as new camera models come out � so I�d think it would be more efficient in the long run.</p>

[jcuknz]

I read on-line so what looks dull won't get read. Like the Nikion/Canon threads by 'experts'

[phyrpowr]

I pay to be on this site and it's fine with me

 

I've always tried to help, because when I first started I got help

 

Some people are so new they don't really know what to ask, the "search" function gives too much uncritical info

 

If someone wants to learn, good for them

[phule]

<<My suggestion is a link on the home page to a chart listing the specifications,price, features, etc. of the different brands (not models). Within that chart, there can be links for �more details� on specific popular models. >>

 

This is already done, to varying degrees, on almost every digital camera review site worth its salt. I see no reason for photo.net to re-invent the wheel. Such a DB would need constant attention and could easily be obsolete in a few months.

[fred_c1]

>You could always send 'em to the Leica area by default.

 

It's been done for a long time now.

[mark u]

I think a major problem for the relatively unitiated is understanding what specifications may be relevant to their real needs in the first place. A few carefully designed questions in an interactive "flowchart" could be a very good way to focus attention on the key specifications. I know of no site that attempts this currently.

 

Add a capability for users to rate their cameras against similar criteria by feeding into a database and hook that up to the interactive questionnaire and you have a way to make automated shortlist recommendations, and the questions that finally emerge will hopefully be much more pertinent. Klaus Schroiff's Photozone site has tried to tackle the database end with his user performance database for lenses, cameras and films (he has incorporated some safeguards against rogue inputs too).

[bill_b2]

Good, if this forum will have, or the people will be directed to, a brief, introductory camera-buying tutorial and links to the digital camera reviews. Otherwise, I am concerned the assistance they receive here may be too piecemeal or technical. They often do not know what to ask.

 

This is a good site. I'm glad you are working toward making it better.

 

Bill

[mars c]

"what should I buy" questions are unavoidable, as there are plenty of new products coming out every now and then.

[ted_marcus1]

One thing you might consider is either killing the "camera equipment" forum or consolidating it, perhaps with this forum. I never really understood what the "camera equipment" forum was for, or what distinguished it from the "digital cameras" or the forums devoted to specific manufacturers.