Contax T3 - User Comments, Discussion (PART 2)

[charles_stewart1]

I just looked up the site which features a picture of the Fuji Klasse,

with (some) specs:

 

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photozone.de/range.htm

[charles_stewart1]

t3 users, please forgive these multiple postings, somewhat off-topic,

but just to follow through on answering the Klasse question, I'll add

that I found a very brief review on the popphoto.com site:

 

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38mm 2.6 (one-upmanship)

tessar-type with an aspherical element added

1/1000, but with the same limitation as t3 - slower speeds only w.

wider apertures; 1/300 max. if wide open.

P/AP systems

Like so many of these cameras, looks like a gleaming, silvery theft

candidate.

List approx. $620, but Japan only for now, apparently.

That was about it.

Chas.

[andrew_schank]

A major drawback to the Fuji mentioned above is that it is a Fuji.

They have to win an award for the poorest support in the camera

world. It they stick to their standard procedure, three years from

now when it is discontinued, they will have no more parts available

for it.

[philip_bonner]

The Fuji doesn't have Carl either. Carl Zeiss that is! It would be

very interesting if Leica tried to outdo the T3 with a Minilux II.

 

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Leica just teamed up with Panasonic to make a Digital Still Camera

(DSC) aimed at the Cybershot, Canon G-1 and Coolpix 995. They all

need to improve a few more evolutions to catch up to film quality, no

less the quality of the T3.

 

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Meanwhile, I'll be taking some of the best shots ever with my T3

thanks! Is my raving about this camera becoming embarassing?!?!

[john_mccormack]

Re: Fuji KLASSEE

 

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According to the press I've read, the Fuji KLASSE will only be

available in the home (Japanese) market. This may change with demand,

of course.

[philip_bonner]

To balance out my gushing of the attributes of the T3, I thought this

email exchange between Marc (T4 owner) and I, could provide some

material for review and also some criticism of the T3.

 

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Hi Phil,

 

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You wrote on the bulletin board recently:

"Meanwhile, I'll be taking some of the best shots ever with my T3

thanks! Is my raving about this camera becoming embarassing?!?! " I

thought I'd write to you privately and say that, yes, it is becoming

a bit much to hear the predictable raves from you about the T3. As

Charles Stewart mentioned in an earlier post on Part 1 of the board,

one has to wonder if some of the posters aren't simply shills for

Contax I posted. (on Part 1) a message asking for more substantial

reviews about the T3, especially comparisons to the Yashica T4. In

that post, I asked you specifically to describe how prints from the

T3 are superior to the T4 (which you say you also own). Andrew Shank

was kind enough make pointed comparisons between the two cameras. I

heard nothing from you. If you care to be useful to those considering

the purchase of a T3, how about loading the same film type in each

camera, shoot a variety of images with both cameras sequentially,

process the two rolls of film at the same place, and provide

detailed, objective, honest appraisals of the resulting prints. That

would be very helpful to the photo community. The going price of the

T3 is more than four times what I paid for my T4. Features alone

hardly can justify that to me; consistent, superior picture results

might.

 

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-Marc Ditz

---------------------

Phil�s 1st Reply to Marc:

 

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Marc,

 

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I use the T4/T5 for beach, fishing and bad weather shooting and am

completely satisfied with the snapshots that it renders. Of course

only you can be the judge whether the feature set/flexibility of the

T4 is adequate. Only under a 4x loupe do I notice a small degree of

superiority of sharpness of the T3 images over the T4 images of

subjects, (shot with the same film under the same conditions and

processed identically).

 

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Others have provided much more technical/scientific reviews which can

tend to exaggerate the differences between lenses. In my subjective

view after using the T3, Minilux Zoom and the Canon 50 f/1.4, the T3

is about the same degree sharper over the over the Minilux zoom as it

is over the T5. Which is to say, an insignificant degree sharper,

when viewing the amazingly sharp prints that these fine cameras can

render.

 

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Since, even under the loupe and in 8x10 enlargements the T3 has been

delivering results comparable in sharpness to my Canon 50mm f/1.4,

(one of the very sharpest lens' made), I feel confident using the T3

interchangeably with the 50 mm f/1.4 in all serious shooting that can

accommodate the T3's 35 mm lens. Since the T3 is much more

convenient to carry/use than the SLR and I can bring it anywhere and

quickly "point and shoot" many more shots with equal quality as my

sharpest SLR lens, theT3 has provided me with more photographic

mobility/freedom.

 

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Since I also have the TL 200 flash for the T3, which when mounted

using the SA-2 bracket, is far less cumbersome than the canon EX 550

and even the Leica CF flash for the Minilux zoom, the T3 remains

extremely portable/handy for most of my flash shooting. The main

exception is some flash shooting in which I want to apply bounce

flash.

 

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The T4/T5 does similarly fine daylight fill flash as the T3 and it's

flash is comparable to the T3's built-in flash which is limited to

mostly head and shoulders portraits.

_____________

Marc�s Reply

Hi Phil,

 

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Thanks for your quick reply.

 

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Let's leave aside the SLR comparison. As you say that as regards your

Yashica T4 you are "completely satisfied with the snapshots that it

renders," I continue to wonder what exactly you prefer about the T3

over the T4.

 

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Let's leave aside flash shooting for which you might want the flash

attachment capability of the T4. Why would you choose to take along

the T3 over the T4? In your view, the optics of the two cameras are

essentially of the same quality. So that leaves things like

shutterlag of the T4, the aperture priority of the T3 (thought that's

limited to 1/500 sec or slower shutter speed), programability and

focusing reliability, etc.

 

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From what I've read, the autofocus of the T3 may be much more

predictable than that of the T4. To my mind, that's a significant

plus. The shutterspeed info in the viewfinder is nice, but as Pop

Photo said, having the focusing distance also in the viewfinder would

have much better than having to look on top of the camera for that

info. And you're saying that the built-in flash of the T3 is really

no better than that in the T4.

 

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I guess I was simply trying to pin down exactly what you preferred

about the T3 over the T4 that might justify a price difference of

$550.

 

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Thanks,

Marc

________

Phil�s Last Reply to Marc:

 

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Hi Marc,

The quality of the T3 is comparable to the 50 mm f/1.4. The T4 is not

up to that standard and is not interchangeable with the 50 mm in my

view. For example, if I come across a scene that can be shot with the

T4 or the T3, or, the 50 mm, I now prefer the T3 over the SLR for

it�s convenience, knowing I would not be losing any image quality in

the captured picture. However, I would not choose the T4 over my SLR

with the Canon 50 mm 1.4 lens.

 

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This is not saying that I am not completely satisfied with the

snapshots that the T4 and Minilux Zoom produce and I use my T4 for

the beach and fishing and bad weather. The Minilux zoom is a great

people shooter. But I would not use the T4 in safe/dry conditions and

choose it if the T3 or the Canon SLR with the 50 mm f /1.4 were

available.

 

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Alone, the fact that the T3 is interchangeable with my SLR equipped

with one of the sharpest lens available, makes the T3 a bargain. As I

said I can now go anywhere with the ability to �point and shoot� top

quality photos that I could not or would not due to the inconvenience

of the bulk of the SLR.

 

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No the optics are not the same quality between the T4 and the T3 as

you seem intent on contriving to make your point, (i.e; that the T3

is not worth the extra money that one could spend for a T4/T5). The

T4 optics are very fine while the T3 is the finest.

 

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In addition to dismissing the T3�s superior optics, to further

contrive your case, you also say, �Let�s leave out the capability of

added flash, more accurate and quicker AF-assist focus, aperture

priority shooting, no shutter lag, CF function programming and manual

focus ability.�

 

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Then, unbelievably, you still ask, �So after leaving all these

features out, what is it about the T3 that justifies the price

difference of $500 over the T4/T5.� Well Marc I see to match your

logic we�ll have to look at things backwards.

 

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For instance, if one were to strip all of the T3 �s features and

superior optics mentioned above that the T4/T5 does not have, the T3

would probably still cost more than the T4/T5. That is because you

would still have rock solid titanium construction, smaller, better

portability, better viewfinder and the strong/reliable Contax

reputation. Also the T4/T5 was an incredible value but will not be

available anymore and I doubt you could get anything near the quality

of it�s lens for less than $300.00.

 

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With the T3 you get it all. But unfortunately we usually must also

pay for what we want to get. If you do not want to pay extra to get

the extra features and superior optics of the T3 (rated sharpest ever

P&S) � if those features and quality are not worth it for you - then

stay with your T4 and be happy.

 

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However, just because you cannot find an adequate basis on which to

make your argument that th eT3 us not worth it, does not make me a

shill for Contax because I expressed my satisfaction with a very good

product. I've been photgraphing for about 35 years with some of the

finest equipment available and the T3 has proven itself to be tops.

 

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Phil

[kwen_wan1]

Adding to the T3/T4 debate, as owner of both too, the upgrade

depends ultimately on the size of your resources.

 

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The T4 optically exhibits very similar traits to the T3, (for me

subjectively anyway, the same sort of colour, depth, delicacy of

detail which it renders beautifully - compared to say my 35Ti

which renders the detail more 'aggressively' 'stamping' out the

details with more 'authority', but less sharply. T4 is afterall a CZ.

 

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However the T4 has more distortion than T3 in the corners, is

less sharp than the T3 in the corners, and is less uniformly

illuminated across the frame. Darker corners are more apparent

with T4 than T3 e.g. at small apertures on a blue sky.

 

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Wide open the T4 is sharp but the T3 is even sharper. (my

subjective comments are based on different batches of photos

and not a 'scientific' side by side comparison so are somewhat

limited in value, and the keyword here is 'subjective') T3 appears

to have more resolving power too.

 

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T4 Flash is also more powerful than the T3's providing better

illumination.

 

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Focus on the T4 is active, while on the T3 it is passive. T4

focuses in the dark better and if you are doing candid night

shots, it's black body and discretness win the day. T3 gives the

game away with a flashing focus aid! Active focus appears to

have a problem with focusing at infinity, so the T4 has a focus

lock for distant objects but I have never found it to be a problem. I

actually have more focusing problems on the T3 due to it's wider

autofocus area than the 'point' focus area of the T4 (which I

prefer). U.S. version of T4 I think has multibeam AF. i.e. has a

waist finder. My T4 doesn't.

 

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T4 is ligher than T3 (despite deliberate attempts to make the

camera lighter) but T3 remains the smaller camera.

 

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T4 is noiser in operation, on activation, and on shooting. T3 is

velvet in operation. Functionality wise of course the T3 has more

features on board which are available on promotional literature,

but unfortunately not on the contaxcameras.com site (July).

 

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My T3 (which may be a slightly compromised production model)

gives more wrong exposures than the T4 (in point and shoot

mode), the flash failing to fire in backlight situations. It also

occasinally focuses on the wrong point even given the chance

twice! as detailed in the above thread.

 

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As to comparisons with SLR's or with Contax's own G system

the compacts T4 and T3 don't have a even illumination across

the frame (with the samples I possess) at small apertures

probably in the region of f8 - f16 (no aperture info). There is a

darkening in the corners of the frame particulary noticable with

clear skys, though with the T3 the effect is much less

pronounced.

 

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I've posted some casual 'point and shoot' snapshots (not

photographic art!) of photos taken with the T3 and scanned to

CDROM via a commercial film scanner at:

http://webxone.com/t3

on shot aIMG0030.jpg there is a slight darkening of the frame in

the lefhand and righthand corners in the sky. T4 would be worse,

as would 35Ti, T3 is relatively subdued in comparison.

 

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Price wise the T3 is not a 4x better camera than the T4 but the

increment is worth it for some e.g. me and others on this thread.

(but in my case I was not looking for a camera to replace my T4 it

was to replace the Nikon 35Ti). If you already have the T4 and

are perhaps not completely convinced that the T3 is the better

camera or that the gains are minimal, the Contax G1 and 45mm

f2 lens is just a little more than the T3 (well in HK anyway). This

would probably be the better purchase over the T3 as it give you

more control, more features, more expansion and a better lens.

Although not a compact is reasonably small compared to an

SLR, and your T4 would be there for situations where the G1 is

'too big'.

[andrew_schank]

If you are happy with the results with the T4, by all means save your

money and keep using it. I was not 100% happy with the response time

of mine, or the corner darkening in many outside shots, but mostly

because I had no control over exposures and no idea where the camera

had focused. The T3 addressed these issues and added a faster,

sharper lens with no distortion and an amazing resistance to all

types of flare. I use mine mostly for nature outings, and am

enjoying the high performance of the lens at f2.8 for natural light

pictures in the woods (without flash of course)and late in the day.

I will try to post some shots soon. I lOVE that I can set defaults

where I want them so I am not having to push a bunch of buttons

before every exposure to get the camera to do what I want. I can get

8X12's of superb quality with even edge sharpness right up there with

the best 35mm lenses out there in a camera that is the size of an APS

camera.

 

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If a person's use were mostly to take images of family and friends,

many taken inside with a flash, then the T4 would probably be a

better choice. The T3 is not going to deliver 4X better images than

the T3,(the cost ratio) but that is the case with any high end

optics. The $2000 Leica M lenses are not 8 times better then the

Nikkor primes either. Unfortunately, I have become cursed with an eye

for the slight difference these days. I was probably better off

before I shot a few rolls with that damn Leica Summicron a few years

back! Spoiled me for life.

[paul_beiser]

Just got my T3 and love it. I had a T2 for 5 years, and find the T3

better in all respects (but I do have to agree the styling is a bit

better in the T2). I have found only 2 minor things I would change:

 

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1) the "dial" for setting EV compenstation and defaults I find hard a

bit hard to turn quickly and accurately (this will probably get

better with time)

 

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2) I wish there was an electronic way to set a default f-stop, and

have that be the default when the camera turns on. I find that I am

using the camera a lot of outdoor activities, and many times I want

to set an f-stop and just use that every time I turn the camera on.

 

<p>

 

Take care,

Paul

[jerome1]

More questions about the various focusing possibilities.

 

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A) Focusing with the AFL button:

1) if you custom the camera so that focus is locked until turning off

(CF6), how do you return to standard AF mode ?

2) does the lens extend as soon as you push the AFL button, or do you

have to half-press the shutter button once ?

 

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B) Focusing manually by pre-selecting a distance:

1) once you have selected the distance using the Mode button and the

+/- dial, how do you change the distance between each frame ? by the

Mode button and the dial, or the dial only ? (assuming that you use

the custom function CF7 to keep manual focus mode until reset)

2) does the lens extend as soon as you have selected a distance, or do

you have to half-press the shutter button once ?

3) how many distance steps are available ?

 

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Thank you very much for all these interesting comments.

 

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Jerome

[kwen_wan5]

If I understand your questions correctly:

 

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A) 1) Turn off the camera and switch it back on

A) 2) pressing the AFL button does not lock the lens as it retracts

once you have released the shutter button. When you fire the

shutter the lens extends to focus position.

 

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B) 1) Mode button and the dial,

B 2) lens extends when manual focus is set

B 3) 0.4m, 0.5m, 0.6m, 0.7m, 0.8m, 0.9m, 1m, 1.1m, 1.3m, 1.5m,

2m, 3m, 5m, 10m and infinity

[kwen_wan1]

Paul,

 

<p>

 

"1) the "dial" for setting EV compenstation and defaults I find

hard a bit hard to turn quickly and accurately (this will probably

get better with time)"

- it's not too difficult as it is at first level on the mode menu, but

cycling around for the other functions is a slight chore.

 

<p>

 

2) I wish there was an electronic way to set a default f-stop, and

have that be the default when the camera turns on. I find that I

am using the camera a lot of outdoor activities, and many times I

want to set an f-stop and just use that every time I turn the

camera on.

- yeah, agree.

On the 35ti as a comparison a camera from the 'last century'

sets the f stop and stays there when switched on, plus I miss

having the half stops, 35ti has half stops all the way to f22.

[jay_goldman]

1) It was mentioned that in low light, the T3 throws out a red

baem. Is this very noticeable? Would it cause problems when I an

trying to get informal peple shots in indoor low light.

Is there a noise associated with the red beam (I read this

somewhere.)

2) How is the metering for informal peple shots in indoor low

light. Is it too wide for very varied lighting, for example, a well

illuminated face with dark surroundings. I am usually using high speed

black and white film in these circumstances.

3) Can anyone compare shrpness for the T3 with the Contax T.

I always found the T sharper than the T2. Since the lenses were

supposed to be the same, I assumed it was due to the difference in

roundness of the aperature ring. Aperature priority on the T2 is a

phony (only good up to 1/125 of a second shutter speed) and I usually

used program. In this mode the T2 ignores the aperature ring and uses

the shutter blades to form the aperatue, just as in all of the cheapy

P&S's. Thus not a very round aperature.

[jay_goldman]

Apologies for the horrible spelling in my message.

[jerome1]

Kwen,

 

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For my question A2, do you mean that even if in AFLock mode you custom

the camera to keep focus until turning off (CF6), the lens is

retracted after each frame ? It would be a bit odd, I think.

 

<p>

 

I am wondering why you bother about keeping the same f-stop after

turning off and on: you could then just stay in aperture priority

mode, with your favorite f-stop, don't you ?

 

<p>

 

Thank you again

 

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Jerome

[john_mccormack]

>>1) It was mentioned that in low light, the T3 throws out a red

>>beam. Is this very noticeable?

 

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No, it's not noticeable, just a quick red flash; no "beam" like a

laser pointer or something.

 

<p>

 

 

>>Would it cause problems when I an trying to get informal peple

>>shots in indoor low light. Is there a noise associated with the red

beam (I read this somewhere.)

 

<p>

 

No and No.

 

<p>

 

2) How is the metering for informal people shots in indoor low light.

Is it too wide for very varied lighting, for example, a well

illuminated face with dark surroundings?

 

<p>

 

In my experience, metering is fine in low light, but I haven't shot

many pictures with drastic backlighting.

 

<p>

 

Check out this image, which had strong daytime backlighting

http://www.photo.net/photo/260289

 

<p>

 

and this image, shot in low light w/ auto flash setting.

http://www.photo.net/photo/290420

 

<p>

 

 

>I am usually using high speed black and white film in these

>circumstances. 3) Can anyone compare sharpness for the T3 with the

>Contax T.

 

<p>

 

Can't help here, but I can't imagine the older T lens is any sharper.

[john_mccormack]

>For my question A2, do you mean that even if in AFLock mode you

>custom the camera to keep focus until turning off (CF6), the lens is

>retracted after each frame ? It would be a bit odd, I think.

 

<p>

 

The lens does not fully retract; it only returns to the "resting"

position - a small move of the lens but not the whole lens barrel.

 

<p>

 

>I am wondering why you bother about keeping the same f-stop after

>turning off and on: you could then just stay in aperture priority

>mode, with your favorite f-stop, don't you?

 

<p>

 

I'm not sure I understand your question clearly but here's how the T3

main switch works:

Moving the main switch from OFF one click and your in Program (P)

mode. You must press down the button over the power switch to move to

Aperture priority f/ stops (unlike the T2 the f/ stop setting are not

on the lens barrel. Thus you cannot turn the camera OFF without

passing through the f/ stop setting(s) through P mode to OFF.

[charles_stewart1]

I've got just a couple of things to note, then I'll butt out of this

group, at least until I make up my mind to buy a T3 and can discuss it

on the basis of experience:

 

<p>

 

1. There was a question about the old Contax T. That was a 38mm

sonnar I think and, as far as I know, identical to that on the T2. I

rejected a good buy on a used one, because I couldn't manually focus

(no autofocus) conveniently: the finder was bright and clear, but the

camera had that damned trap door for collapsing the lens that the TVS

III has now. Too hard for a smaller person to get thumb and

forefinger around the obstacle to work the focus ring. Also there was

some other limitation I didn't like: no exposure compensation, I

think. I believe it was aperture priority only, but you could find

all that out somewhere on the web, I'm sure.

 

<p>

 

2. In replying to a question about possible minilux upgrades, I

reported a rumor I'd heard that the ML non-zoom was being

discontinued. Since then I've read that it's the date back that's

being discontinued and that both miniluxes are still in production.

Still nothing about upgrades, apparently. One shouldn't repeat

rumors, in general. Sorry about that.

 

<p>

 

3. Have enjoyed this discussion, and the T3 users have convinced me

that the camera is the nearest thing to nirvana currently available in

compact cameras. Oh, if they'd only (a.) offer a black one - I can't

live with the silver for a couple of reasons of my own, and don't

think I could black-tape the lens-front ring safely - and/or (b.)

offer a little longer single focal length - 38-45, which I find more

useful.

Then I'd take the plunge and replace my trusty T4.

Thanks for all the good information and interesting observations,

folks.

Chas.

[kwen_wan1]

Jerome,

 

<p>

 

in addition to John's response, and for clarifcation

"For my question A2, do you mean that even if in AFLock mode

you custom the camera to keep focus until turning off (CF6), the

lens is retracted after each frame ? It would be a bit odd, I think. "

 

<p>

 

Even though the AFL function is set, the lens does not stay in it's

extended focus position, it retracts to it's parked position (not

totally into the body). The focus position is memorised by the AFL

but it's not until you fire the shutter button does the lens extend

back out to the pre locked focussed position. (so there will be a

slight delay)

[kwen_wan1]

Jay,

 

<p>

 

If you do very low light shots like I do, e.g. night market, dimly lit

restaurant, street shots illuminated by street lighting or signs

then the flashing focus aid does attract people's attention.

The more dim the environment, the more noticable the focus aid

is.

 

<p>

 

Although I have not yet shot such scenes with my T3 I have

extensively with my Contax G1 which uses the same focus aid. I

had to tape it up, and use manual focus, and occasionally self

timer (so it doesn't look like you are taking a photo as your finger

is not on the shutter!). T5 would be handy as it has a waist level

finder.

[andrew_schank]

I wil try and post a few recent nature shots taken with the T3. Lets

see if these prompts work, otherwise I'll just paste the url's. I

love taking this camera with me on hikes on my belt in its case-you

don't even know its there.

 

<p>

 

<a href=" http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?

photo_id=306112&size=lg">T3 photo1 </a>

 

<p>

 

<a href=" http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?

photo_id=306099&size=lg">T3 photo2 </a>

 

<p>

 

<a href=" http://www.photo.net/photodb/photo?

photo_id=306103&size=lg">T3 photo3 </a>

[kwen_wan1]

Charles,

 

<p>

 

They do DO a black T3 see this link:

http://www.kyocera.co.jp/news/2001/0104/0402-e.asp

 

<p>

 

The link was originally posted by Mike Johnston on the

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_i

d=004u2K thread.

[andrew_schank]

I would think you lose some of the scratch proofness of the Titanium

by putting some sort of black coating on it. What do people have

against small silver cameras? I actually like that an untrained eye

will likely see the T3 as a $100 APS snap shot camera. I haven't

pulled out the T3 yet where it has gotten any attention at all.

[jerome1]

Now, thanks to you all, I understand there are three lens positions on

the T3: (A) the lens is stored inside (B) the lens is "parked" a bit

outside © the lens is focused.

 

<p>

 

In standard AF mode and also with the AFL function, according to what

you say, the lens goes from (B) to © to (B) when firing, correct ?

 

<p>

 

Then, again on Manual Focus operation: does the lens really stays at

position © (fully focused, as I understand from some of your

comments), or does it also go from (B) to © and © to (B) ?

 

<p>

 

I would love to see one sample, but they still don't have it where I

live in France. I was used to Minox 35 GT (I sold it because there was

no AE and/or exposure correction, not convenient for slides), and I

liked very much the very quick manual focusing with the Minox.

 

<p>

 

There is a black version of the T3 on the japan web site. I have asked

if it would be available from online shops in Germany, I am waiting

the answer. Black or silver, it is a matter of taste, and I understand

that for this price one would like to choose the color !

 

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Have a nice day

 

<p>

 

Jerome

[kwen_wan5]

Jerome,

 

<p>

 

(A) the lens is stored inside

- that is a given factor, on switching on the camera, the lens

moves out to the parked position (B)

and the lens when focused extends to the focus position ©

when the shutter is fired. - after firing, the lens moves back to

position (B). The lens only moves to position (A) when the

camera is switched off.

 

<p>

 

In Manual focus mode, the lens does really stay at position ©.

Sequence is (A) (B) © where it stays primed ready and focused

for the shot.