"Leica is saved!"

[EricM]

"Yep. I'd even do without a built in light meter and with fewer framelines... just a stripped down Leica with an uncluttered viewfinder. Great starter kit for someone who wants to learn about photography."

 

ah Denis, what kind of market share do you think this cam would have? i couldn't see them flying off the shelves and "saving" the company. who's going to venture forth and learn photogrpahy with an expensive box without a light meter? blimey.

[dennis_couvillion]

"...i couldn't see them flying off the shelves and "saving" the company."

 

Eric, I doubt very seriously if one camera is going to "save" Leica. However, what earned Leica its reputation was the concept of a small, quiet, simple, mechanical, no-frills camera. If I had my choice between a plastic auto-exposure Leica (similar to a VC R2A) with a metal shutter, or a metal body Leica with fewer framelines, with cloth shutter and no meter, I'd spring for the latter. What we are talking about is cost and I wonder how much production cost could be reduced by eliminating the built-in meter, the automatic film counter and the additional framelines.

 

IMO, an attractively priced M2-style Leica fitted with a 50mm f2.8 Elmar-M would be a great kit for long-time Leica users as well as novices who are serious about learning photography from the ground up. And... it would be a "real" Leica, not a plastic compromise.

 

Regardless whether we're talking about Leica, Nikon, Voigtlanser or whatever, film cameras will never have the same market share that they once did. But if Leica wants to maintain its traditional film base alongside its digital venture, while still maintaining its reputation for solidly built mechanical cameras, then I think it needs to find a way to reduce the cost of at least one film camera model to make it affordable to long-time Leica users and younger film shooters who are serious about photography as well.

 

Keep in mind that much of the swollen numbers of digital sales greatly represents casual picture-takers and not necessarily serious photography hobbyists. If there was no market for Leica film shooters Leica would be out of business already and we wouldn't be reading about this new re-organiztion plan... and, I suspect, we wouldn't be looking at the VC R2A and the Zeiss Ikon. The numbers must show that there is still a market for rangefinder film cameras. Leica just needs to figure out how to become a player again in that arena if it wants to keep its rangefinder film line alive. And in that respect, they have to reduce their prices without compromising its reputation for simple, solidly-built, mechanical cameras.

 

Dennis

[Brad_]

<I>Keep in mind that much of the swollen numbers of digital sales greatly represents casual

picture-takers and not necessarily serious photography hobbyists.</I><P>

 

You're right. Those numbers are much better represented by the large number of pro labs

that have closed over the last few years.

[EricM]

or the amount of money, huge amount, that Kodak is putting into digital r&d and while laying off workers and dropping emulsions..."Kodak Bright and Sunny" will soon be the only great yellow available soon.

 

"...then I think it needs to find a way to reduce the cost of at least one film camera model to make it affordable to long-time Leica users and younger film shooters who are serious about photography as well."

 

Yes, I agree Denis. But it needs to be a camera for today's dumbing down users as well. Surely you're old enough, or perhaps remember a great deal of camera users that up until the 70's that wouldn't, or couldn't, figure out how to use a fully manual camera? And wouldn?t bother with the hobby/craft because they ended up taking pics at 1/8 f11 on a 50mm at their sons soccer game. Then auto exposure and app and shutter priorities came along and dumb'd it down a bit making the results from the drug store a bit more promising for those that weren't intrested.

 

On one hand, the population only uses small point and shoot cameras and a rf fits this bill nicely. But the population wants automation and a zoom. I'm talking about the population that takes five rolls a film a year for events and wants a dummy proof camera. Building a camera today that equates to a bomb proof Plymouth valiant when everyone is wanting and driving Honda civics' is silly. Building an expensive camera for a niche market with a medium that won't be easily accessible in a few years is even sillier. There's less people with disposal income and less people wanting to shoot film.

 

I just bought a digital point and shoot, and the features it has would be favorable to a lot of film users. It has all manual if one chooses and a 28-100ish zoom with f2.8 at 28mm, and incredibly good ttl flash. It fits in my pocket and I have a ton of choices of settings and focal lengths without bringing a bag of expensive stuff with me if i don't wish

 

Now, if I could buy a Leica body that was reasonable in price, doesn't have to be built in germany or made of metal, but if I could buy a Leica body that had a decent built in flash and "dummie I'm drunk again" modes that took a zoom that they started to make, then I'd carry it around a bit more. It would be more attractive to all the stylus type shooters out there. Then when one reached the limits of this cheap body, they'd have the option that most do from most manufactures, and that is too upgrade towards the prestigious one while their lenses still fit. There's nothing to upgrade too with Leica; either you drive a BMW 850 or don?t drive a BMW. No company would survive with a single high end only model line, especially when you can't even get 4 speakers and a cd player with it. They need a cheap high sales volume appealing body for the part timers.

 

What Leica needs to do is stop building a single line of expensive bodies for their saturated niche market. Their line of products is exclusionary to the consumer that waltzes into the local camera seller looking for a quality all-in-one camera that also provides choices of better glass and bodies further down the road if the user chooses. If they built a plastic m mount body, yes i prefer dropping plastic bodies over metal, that had manual and tourist modes, a zoom, and a great little accurate flash, then they'd sell more. Then like most users out there that start out with a cheap, say nikon body, and start collecting great glass, they upgrade to a better body at some point.

 

Furthermore, I don't know why they didn't get into the 6x6 market either. It would be so juicy to have a 120 neg made through that glass...