Where Oh Where can I Buy Efke Film in LA?

[spanky]

Hi Folks, After reading some of the recent posts regarding Efke film,

I'd really like to try a few 120 size rolls. However, my search today

turned nothing up. I called Samy's main store on Fairfax and they

don't carry Efke. I also stopped in Freestyle and not only do they

not carry Ekfe, but they told me it was discontinued(!) So does

anyone know anyplace else in LA that might carry it? I didn't try Bel

Air since they have a smaller film selection then both Samy's and

Freestyle. I did check out JandC.com but the shipping costs more then

the film does hence why I'm looking to purchase over the counter.

Thanks for any info.

Cheers,

Marc

[jim_shanesy]

I don't think it's sold over the counter. JandC is the exclusive US distributor, I believe. Just buy it from them. Great company.

[jandc_photo]

DR5 in LA carries Efke films.

[titrisol]

Mark, Efke films are very good

I'm very excited bout them. I think that if you buy 10 rolls or so the S&H goes down.

 

But I see john said DR5 has them in stock in LA.

[edward_zimmermann]

"<cite>JandC is the exclusive US distributor, I believe. </cite>"

<P>

Ah, Belief...Nope.. J&C/FotoImpex can't have an exclusive. Anyone can buy films from Efke if they are prepared to place a large enough of an order. Heck you can even get them to do slight customizations (can you spell M-A-C-O). Their films are, however, nothing to get excited about and are really only interesting when they--- as they have over the past few decades--- represented a bargain priced film. If you are looking for 120 film I'd not bother as their films are just not in the same league as mainstream offerings like (keeping to cube crystal films) Agfa APX-100/APX-400, Ilford Pan-F/FP-4/HP-5, Kodak Plus-X/TXP/TX400 and for that matter (if cheap is the object) some of the Foma films.. In 120 Films if you are looking for a nice "traditional" film I suspect it'll be hard to beat Agfa APX-100 for 100 ASA films, Kodak Tri-X Professional (especially for controlled lighting) and ...

<P>

"<cite>Freestyle and not only do they not carry Ekfe, but they told me it was discontinued(!)</cite>"

<p>

Freestyle no longer bothers--- you should keep in mind that Freestyle introduced Efke to the North America market as early as the 1970s following DuPonts scrapping of the Adox plant and its "export" to Yugoslavia and continued to sell it up untill a few years ago--- with Efke as they get better deals (on better material) from Ilford and Forte.

[jandc_photo]

"Ah, Belief...Nope.. J&C/FotoImpex can't have an exclusive."

 

Ah yes, by written contract. Not to say that unlike most things (Nikon cameras, Kodak Film etc) you couldn't go over there and Gray market it.

 

"Heck you can even get them to do slight customizations"

 

The Maco films that compare to the Efke films UP25, UP64 and UP100 are Efke 25, 50 and 100. Cut off the same master rolls. The other emulsions like the infrared films and ortho films are Efke formulations that Maco repackages. The only film Maco produces that they are involved in the formulation of is Rolei R3.

 

"Freestyle no longer bothers"

 

Ah, but they do sell Efke film as Maco branded products at higher prices. It seems kind of disingenuous for a company to tell a customer an item has been discontinued knowing they were carrying the exact same item under another brand.

 

I believe the consensus of users on the major forums is that Efke is a superior film to Forte. We sell both so it doesn't matter to me which people prefer. But to argue that Forte is better than Efke goes against the common opinion held by many.

[al_divenuti]

>>It seems kind of disingenuous for a company to tell a customer an item has been discontinued knowing they were carrying the exact same item under another brand.

 

Disingenuous - but potentially damn lucrative.

 

 

And if those additional proceeds are keeping the OEM and distributor in the game, I'd be inclined to whisper such news quietly lest the gig be up for all of us.

[edward_zimmermann]

"<cite>The Maco films that compare to the Efke films UP25, UP64 and UP100 are Efke 25, 50 and 100. Cut off the same master rolls.</cite>"

<P>

What about those crappy polyester base films like the ill-fated TP64?

<P>

"<cite>The other emulsions like the infrared films and ortho films are Efke formulations that Maco repackages. The only film Maco produces that they are involved in the formulation of is Rolei R3.</cite>"

<P>

Which is a very wack traffic film packaged first up as some cube thing and now in wooden boxes with the Rollei name...

<P>

"<cite>Ah, but they do sell Efke film as Maco branded products at higher prices. It seems kind of disingenuous for a company to tell a customer an item has been discontinued knowing they were carrying the exact same item under another brand.</cite>"

<P>

From "<U>their</U>" point of view the sales of Efke have been discontinued. They did Efke and gave it up.

<P>

To speak of "<cite>disingenuous</cite>"? What do you call a company that squats an old brandname abandoned by DuPont to then claim "<cite>Adox is back</cite>"?

<P>

"<cite>

I believe the consensus of users on the major forums is that Efke is a superior film to Forte. We sell both so it doesn't matter to me which people prefer. But to argue that Forte is better than Efke goes against the common opinion held by many.</cite>"

<P>

I've not argued that Forte is a better film as I said, refering to films, Foma. Forte's photographic papers, however, are indeed quite superior to Efke's. What Forte films, however, offered was a better price point. And yes.. its about (in the context of Freestyle) price.. and what's the point of an unglamourous product like Efke film, long sold as a cheap made in Yugoslavia on German machines using East German materials film when one can get/sell Ilford materials for hardly much more? Since the fall of the COMECON/CMEA and the collapse of Yugoslavia the cards of sourcing cheaper materials from Eastern Europe have been shifted around.. and some wildcards like Lucky.. thrown in.. AND a more aggressive price policy from AgfaPhot and de-facto Kodak (given the strong EURO and their move towards global pricing)..<P> And to Maco? Does not matter what's in their box, in the current marketplace its percieved as sexier.. And if you are going to sell lower grade film you gotta make it sexier.. Like all those low grade perfums with nice designer labels.. That's why wooden boxes are more important than even the film in the little packages.. And why, afterall, YOU are squating the Adox brand and inventing IP stories!

<P>

I thought Efke film was a good choice 30 years ago.. today I can't see why to get Ekfe when I can go to my local distributor and get.. if we are going to continue to talk about 120 rollfilm.. Agfa, Ilford or Kodak materials for between 2 and 2,50 EURO a roll.. which is pretty much (when not less) than Mirko would charge for a sampling of Ekfe. Why do you think that Efke has shrunk to a total corporate size of less than the Sammy's camera?

[jandc_photo]

"What about those crappy polyester base films like the ill-fated TP64?"

 

TP64 is another Fotokemika emulsion that Maco Marketed. In this day of everyone cutting back B&W films you should be giving them credit for trying different things. Maybe it's crappy maybe it's not but at least it's something different and new.

 

"Which is a very wack traffic film packaged first up as some cube thing and now in wooden boxes with the Rollei name..."

 

I'm not a fan of the R3 film although we sell it. You are correct that it?s heritage is traffic film but they did some additional stuff like antihalo under the emulsion. Again, like it or hate it at least it?s an attempt at something new.

 

"From "their" point of view the sales of Efke have been discontinued. They did Efke and gave it up."

 

No, they started selling Efke labeled as Maco instead. If you were the customer looking for KB25 wouldn?t you have appreciated being told it?s the same as Maco UP25+ and yes we have it in stock? I guess your view is that it?s better to waste the customers time then tell it like it is.

 

"To speak of "disingenuous"? What do you call a company that squats an old brandname abandoned by DuPont to then claim "Adox is back"?"

 

JandC has never made this statement. In all my posts on the forums I have always indicated that Adox is Efke and it?s just a marketing name. I have posted over and over again that the films are the same. So what?s disingenuous about that?

 

What about all the Ilford film sold under numerous brand names at differing price points for the same thing. Are these dealers being disingenuous too?

 

"What Forte films, however, offered was a better price point."

 

Forte offered a better price point to the point of loosing money on every roll of film in exchange for a large dump of cash on a large order. They were strapped for cash and took the money. Then they went bankrupt over it. Not much logic there. Kind of sounds like the Ilford scenario too doesn't it? Selling your premium products at pennies on the dollar in bulk sizes to anyone with a big enough check book and losing your shirt over it.

 

"And yes.. its about (in the context of Freestyle) price.. and what's the point of an unglamourous product like Efke film, long sold as a cheap made in Yugoslavia on German machines using East German materials film when one can get/sell Ilford materials for hardly much more?"

 

I know this is going to be hard for you to deal with but have you ever considered that there are people out there that like Efke better than Ilford regardless of price?

 

"Since the fall of the COMECON/CMEA and the collapse of Yugoslavia the cards of sourcing cheaper materials from Eastern Europe have been shifted around.. and some wildcards like Lucky.. thrown in.. AND a more aggressive price policy from AgfaPhot and de-facto Kodak (given the strong EURO and their move towards global pricing).."

 

Wait until you see what happens to the price of Ilford and the rest in the upcoming months.

 

"And to Maco? Does not matter what's in their box, in the current marketplace its percieved as sexier.. And if you are going to sell lower grade film you gotta make it sexier.."

 

Kind of like ORWO re-branding Ilford film I guess. Using that sexy old world name to sell common film.

 

"And why, afterall, YOU are squating the Adox brand and inventing IP stories!"

 

Please tell me what story I invented. Show me the text from the web where I said anything but Adox=Efke. In fact look at my Adox web site (http://www.adoxfilm.com/) and tell me that I?m trying to fool anyone.

 

"I thought Efke film was a good choice 30 years ago.. today I can't see why to get Ekfe when I can go to my local distributor and get.. if we are going to continue to talk about 120 rollfilm.. Agfa, Ilford or Kodak materials for between 2 and 2,50 EURO a roll.."

 

Don?t you understand that more choices are better? Let?s have Kodak, Ilford, Agfa, Efke and whoever else make all the films they want. One person may hate film X and the other will love it. We?re all better off with all of these companies being there.

 

"Why do you think that Efke has shrunk to a total corporate size of less than the Sammy's camera?"

 

Duh, the worldwide market for B&W film, especially industrial and government uses, collapsed? By the way Ilford has shrunk by a much larger percentage. How does that fit your equation.

 

Really, what does it matter how big the company is? There are people out there that like the film. A nice lean company that can produce it without having to make thousands of square meters at a time is again a good thing.

 

Yes Forte makes great paper. But there are a lot of fans of Maco Expo A.K.A. Efke Emaks paper out there too. Why the fuss about this?

 

The poster at the top of the thread asked where to get Efke in LA. I answered him. I see this thread going nowhere from here as it?s obvious you have an issue with Efke film. So we'll just leave it at this.

 

 

[spanky]

Some interesting reading, thanks guys. The guy I talked to at Freestyle may not have known that Maco Up25 is the same film. I can't understand either why he would blow a sale. For all he knew, I might have bought out their whole stock. I've never heard of DR5, I'll give them a ring. Freestyle is asking $4.99 per roll for Maco Up25 so it's still cheaper to buy through JandC. My main reason for trying this film is that I was so impressed with the prints at the Diane Arbus exhibit that I was curious as to what film she used. On many of her contact sheets one can read the Adox brand on the film edges. I just really liked the almost grainless prints with great tone range, so I'm looking to shoot a few rolls for portraits to see how they come out. One odd thing though: The Massive Developing Chart gives a 1:12 dilution in Rodinal and different ratios and times for Efke. If they are the same film why the difference?

Thanks,

Marc

[edward_zimmermann]

"<cite>I was so impressed with the prints at the Diane Arbus exhibit that I was curious as to what film she used. On many of her contact sheets one can read the Adox brand on the film edges.</cite>"

<P>

That film is history. DuPont purchased the ADOX Fotowerke Dr. C. Schleussner GmbH (Frankfurt) in 1962 and eventually shut down the production in Munich and sold the machines to Fotokemika in Yugoslavia in the early 1970s--- if I correctly recall I think I saw the first rolls of Efke/Adox at Freestyle around 1972 or so. Efke (the brand name) films were, at first, based upon the Adox KB series of films but were modified in many significant ways and some of the raw materials switched over to sources--- for obvious reasons--- within the COMECON/CMEA trading block. The films have continued to evolve in many different subtle ways and like the "<cite>telephone game</cite>" bear not the complete message of a 1960s Adox--- just as with many other films they have significantly improved over the years. Back in the early 1950s Adox KB films were hot stuff but these "thin emulsions" are, these days, the rule and not the exception.

<P>

"<cite> "And why, afterall, YOU are squating the Adox brand and inventing IP stories!" Please tell me what story I invented.</cite>"

<P>

Invent or in the very least work to not discourage stories (or have I missed the statements or overlooked text) among others, that Mirko Boeddecker <strong>PURCHASED</strong> the Adox tradename and intellectual property from DuPont. This is, as you well know, NOT true. Not even a "half-truth". A registration with the US PTO or with the German Patent Office of a tradename and mark is NOT a purchase. According to my information there was also no negotiations to contract with DuPont over a purchase of any relevant assets. What you have done is try to defend the trademark against "infringement" by others on the North American markets.

<P>

Was it or was it not your intentions (and I'll throw David Foy in this same bag) to create an impression that somehow an old Adox has returned like a phoenix from the ashes? David Foy has come to finally admit in public statements that he "squated" the trademark in Canada but I've yet to see at your or Mirko's sites such a clear statement or disclosure.

<P>

Now about Ilford:

"<cite>Kind of like ORWO re-branding Ilford film I guess. Using that sexy old world name to sell common film.</cite>"

<P>

Orwo is not a sexy name but a name in Western Germany associated with cheap. The Or(iginal)Wolfen company no longer exists and has been broken down into a small handfull of tiny operations. OrWo is a trademark now of the failed PixelNet (which also at one point purchased the ruins of Photo Porst, once the largest photo house in the world). The ORWO rebranding of Ilford is like the Tura rebranding of Ilford and Agfa.. A generic that is sold for less with the public expections of what's inside.. <P>

But if we want to talk about the "was" OrWo then we must talk about Calbe (Photochemistry) and FilmoTec (Film materials). Both these companies don't just repackage. The ORWO branded FilmoTec films are NOT from Ilford but made by them--- the market for cine stocks has been (in contrast to still) growing at a very high rate (more cine films are consumed today then ever). See their list: <A href="http://www.filmotec.de/Produkte/produkte.html">http://www.filmotec.de/Produkte/produkte.html</A>.

The FilmoTec materials are very good.

<P>

There are a bunch of chemical companies trying to survive in the region, especially in the ChemiePark...

[edward_zimmermann]

"<cite>The guy I talked to at Freestyle may not have known that Maco Up25 is the same film. I can't understand either why he would blow a sale. </cite>"

<P>

Freestyle is not a high street photo shop but a place to get cheap materials.. What do you expect? That's why Sammy's or Calumet have been the places where people who earn their money with photography went--- or before them places like Schaefer's in Hollywood-- and Freestyle grew as the Mecca for the high school kids and students.. (BelAir is where the geezers with money went)

[titrisol]

"Ah, Belief...Nope.. J&C/FotoImpex can't have an exclusive. Anyone can buy films from Efke if they are prepared to place a large enough of an order. Heck you can even get them to do slight customizations (can you spell M-A-C-O). Their films are, however, nothing to get excited about and are really only interesting when they--- as they have over the past few decades--- represented a bargain priced film."

 

Have to disagree on this.

I just bought some KB100 and KB25.

KB100 is a decent all purpose film, maybe in the same league as APX100 (apx400 is horrible).

Kb25 is a very fine grained film, liked it a lot. Felt like the old Agfapan25.

 

" If you are looking for 120 film I'd not bother as their films are just not in the same league as mainstream offerings like (keeping to cube crystal films) Agfa APX-100/APX-400, Ilford Pan-F/FP-4/HP-5, Kodak Plus-X/TXP/TX400 and for that matter (if cheap is the object) some of the Foma films.. In 120 Films if you are looking for a nice "traditional" film I suspect it'll be hard to beat Agfa APX-100 for 100 ASA films, Kodak Tri-X Professional"

 

While nothing can beat APX 100 Efke KB100 is a very decent film.

Either thet have improved their film compared to when you did your tests or I'm just overexcited.

 

PS. EFKE kb100 is in the same price range as APX100

[al_divenuti]

Can't we turn off the italics here?

 

Clearly there's a lot of "who-said-what" to sort through and it seems that there is a considerable hazard that the vitriolic comments of some are not getting directed to the correct parties...