Tripod Tribulations

[david_thomas8]

I must say, I have been told on this very discussion forum that you

MUST have a tripod to be a professional wedding photographer.

Indeed, it a pre-requisite for success. Likewide a flash bracket to

avoid those nasty shadows when shooting vertically.

 

Well, I'm not so sure. Aferall, the realm of the successful

photographer must reside in the uniqueness of his product i.e. the

originality of his photographs.

 

Why can't a successful photographer forget the ancient pre-requisite

of a tripod? I propose to use 2 fast lenses, say 1 20mm f1.8 and a

50mm f1.8. This effectively eliminates the need for flash in many

situations (using DSLR) and of course, photographs produced with

natural light are much more beautiful than flash. What about the

dreaded shadows I hear you say? Well, beauty is very much in the eye

of the beholder and indeed, beauty is in the eye of the couple who

purchase your photographs, and recommend you to other clients.

 

Why would you need a tripod for the group shots with a fast 20mm

f1.8? Answer, because you have to 'see' the right moment to press

the remote control. Well, I can say 3-2-1- smile I think.

 

The fact is a very fast prime lense elimates the need for

flash/tripod in many situations. Less is more.

 

Any by the way, the quickflip arrived today with remote control for

the D70 and SC28 flash sync cord. What a dreadful nightmare when

fully assembled, especially all that telephone cord! On the

occassions I do use my SB800 or SB600 flash, I will shoot horizontal

and avoid the needs for such ugly contraptions. In all honesty, I

will use the natural light as much as I can.

 

At the end of the day, what works for one photographer does not work

for another.

 

Dave.

[jewan_runhaar]

I thought this discussion was already dead.... if you don't want to use it then don't...

 

I must note that all great artists, including photographers do things a bit strange sometimes.

[jimstrutz]

The tripod is my crutch. I hate it, but it keeps me going in the right direction. Sometimes there is not enough light even for a fast lens and high ISO. You could add IS/VR but even that has its limits. Using a tripod can be limiting, and I certainly don't always use one, but it can also be very liberating when you are trying to arrange & shoot portraits & groups.

 

For the times you will be forced to use the flash, keeping the camera horizontal will be very limiting. I find vertical shots to be the norm for wedding photography, and not using verticals would be dreadful. Of course, there are several well respected photographers that simply hold the flash in their left hand while shooting. I just find the bracket a more convenient way to do this.

 

You should use what ever works for you, but I believe you may find this limits yourself and your images by rejecting both of these devices.

[picturesque]

Yeah David, like Jewan, I thought this discussion was dead too. You asked for comments on your "old" kit, and you got them. No one told you that a tripod and bracket are "required" to be a professional. If the arguments for these pieces of gear don't convince you, don't use them. If you can find clients that buy your style and technique, fine.

 

I will answer your question re the group shots, though. For group shots with more than one row of people you need depth of field, which you cannot get using f1.8. That is why at dark church altars, photographers use flash and smaller f-stops. They also drag the shutter so some background detail shows up. This is when you may need a tripod because you often can't handhold with the shutter speed required to "open up" the backgrounds. Formals are also the ones that get enlarged, so you don't want to shoot these at ISO 3200, even using noise reduction software.

 

Also, natural light is not always beautiful. Sometimes it is, more often it isn't. By natural, I mean light that is there in a given location. For instance, at the altar again, with "natural" light, you get what is called "racoon eyes", from the overhead lighting causing dark shadows in eye sockets. If you don't use flash to at least fill in, you can hardly see a person's eyes. The light is natural, but beautiful? Not really. This happerns outside too. Overcast skies cause the same kind of racoon eyes. That is why many photographers use at least some fill flash most of the time. Again, whether this is what you want to do is up to you. Just don't call us self righteous for answering your questions.

[david_thomas8]

In England, no one ever does group shots inside a church

[picturesque]

OK, if you're never going to encounter those circumstances, whether it be formals or otherwise, then I guess you can do what you want to do. And I meant "us" as in the people that have responded to your previous posts regarding the tripod and bracket--the ones I'm assuming you're referring to in the above statement. If that's not your intent, then disregard.

[Ed_Ingold]

I would encourage all my competition to forgo the use of tripods, even for those few times when the shutter speed is too low to avoid camera shake. Blur is good, it adds to the character of the image and the reputation of the photographer. To that list add flash units, zoom lenses and digital cameras.

[michelle_sternberg]

Personally- not having responded to previous questions concerning a tripod- I love using my tripod for formals especially- for many of the reasons Nadine suggested here. I also use it for 'aisle' shots during the ceremony as not to use flash in large, dark churches- as well as the descending bride and groom- focus on a point before hand and bam! This also gives me a free hand to use the 35mm to capture a few more of these shots as well as turning on the bride and groom immediately as they exit the sanctuary/church. Some of my best images have been from these moments because of the expressions I could have otherwise missed... Not saying you must have a pod to be pro, but you can see where it would come in handy in low light situations regardless of the size of your f-stop. How about some neat motion during the dances by dragging the shutter. now- I'm not from England, but I find it extremely hard to believe that not one photographer shoots church formals there. Especially with all those architecturally interesting buildings and beautiful altars... ;)

[Jerry_]

A tripod: can't hurt if you have one. Here is one example: the church has 'decent' lighting and you need 1/10th second at f11 -- are your hands good enough to shoot from the choir loft? A tripod makes life easier but it will not make you a better thinker during the wedding.

 

 

 

Take Photo Net info as advice, not something carved in stone.

[iskandar_azaman___kuala_lu]

If you really think that you can use f1.8 for every shot then manufacturers wouldn't need to create smaller apertures. Just have it open wide all the time for all situations. There's such a thing as controlling the depth of field you know?

 

Tripods are useful in many situations and a lot of wedding photographers use it. If you don't mind giving your clients group shots where the back row is out of focus and portrait shots where the bride has racoon eyes then so be it. It's your business.

 

I really see no point in this tripod debate. If you don't want to use it then don't use it. Other people like using tripods and flash brackets.

[david_thomas8]

Here is a review of the new sigma 20mm f1.8, which highlights many of the issues I have raised:

 

Photography Experience:

11-20 years, Other

 

Summary:

Don't listen to the detractors. This lens isn't for them. They use tri-pods and tight f-stops... what they call "proper" technique. The Singma 20mm f1.8 is the best wide angle walking around lens for the Nikon mount. Since it's f1.8, you can get excellent shutter speeds even by candle light or moonlight. The wide area of coverage makes it easy to hand-hold down to 1/15 or 1/8. If you bump the ISO, you can capture semi-action shots in the middle of the night. No it's not critically sharp until you close down to f8, but f1.8 still prints beautifully at 8x10. For digital shooters, you're looking at 30mm, making this lens the spiritual heir to the Nikon 28mm f1.4, a lens which is also criticised for not being critically sharp wide open. A lens which is also revered for its low light abilities.

[wedding-photography-denver]

"Here is one example: the church has 'decent' lighting and you need 1/10th second at f11 -- are your hands good enough to shoot from the choir loft?"

 

So Gerald, you mean this is a difficult thing for you? LOL

[steve_levine]

I have shot hundreds of weddings, and I have never shot a single frame with a tripod.

[lb-]

David,

 

If you're as passionate about your work as you are about your gear I'm sure you have

nothing to

worry about (or to prove).

 

you've posted some very nice photos (really like the one of your son btw) but the context

of this discussion (which you started) is very much centered on technique and style

regarding low light

photography and again, while the pix you've shared are very nice, they were all taken in

high ambient light shooting conditions. My favorite conditions to shoot in as well, but

maybe not as relevant to the particular discussion at hand and certainly not always what

we get at a wedding.

 

I think it's great to discuss technique and style, but most of all I love to see actual pictures

in the context of those discussions.

 

I'll go first.

 

It's a staged shot (obviously). Not a great shot but one that illustrates a point.

 

when I saw them toasting I wanted to re-create it. the room light was very soft and low

with about

18-22 foot high ceilings made of dark wood. I couldn't really bounce my flash and direct

flash wouldn't ruined the look. There was no time to setup strobes and softboxes or

anything

complicated. I shot at 1.8 with a 50mm lens on a 1.6x digital body, no flash. even at a

very high ISO I wasn't going to get a handholdable shutter speed.

 

it's not an important shot. it's not a formal or an alter shot. It's a throwaway shapshot of

a toast but I wanted the shot and I wasn't going to get it without a tripod.

 

I shot for years without a flash or a tripod but I wasn't shooting weddings. If the light was

bad I waited until it was good. I didn't feel like I had that same level of control with

weddings so I decided to learn how to use a flash and get comfortable with a tripod.

 

if you're comfortable foregoing either or both good for you.

 

I wasn't.

 

cheers

 

lucas<div></div>

[chris m., central florida]

At some point you are going to be shooting in a situation that will require some type of rock solid camera support. If you don't like using a camera support, at best you may lose shots that result in lost sales. At worst you will get an angry bride, husband, parents who trash your name for the one family shot that counted. I use a tripod for my formals from time to time. If I was getting married, I would not hire a professional photographer who did not at least bring along a tripod. In addtion, I work with some truly excellent photographers, including PJ style shooters. They ALWAYS bring tripods and never fail to use them when the situation warrants it. They put technical excellence and the desire to deliver outstanding images above the desire to make things easy on themselves.

[chris m., central florida]

At some point you are going to be shooting in a situation that will require some type of rock solid camera support. If you don't like using a camera support, at best you may lose shots that result in lost sales. At worst you will get an angry bride, husband, parents who trash your name for the one family shot that counted. I use a tripod for my formals from time to time. If I was getting married, I would not hire a professional photographer who did not at least bring along a tripod. In addtion, I work with some truly excellent photographers, including PJ style shooters. They ALWAYS bring tripods and never fail to use them when the situation warrants it. They put technical excellence and the desire to deliver outstanding images above the desire to make things easy on themselves.

 

I am curious - how many weddings have you shot as the primary photographer, David Thomas? This will help me to understand where you are coming from.

[todd frederick]

I try to keep everything very simple when I photograph a wedding. I must concentrate on the couple and the event, and not on my equipment.

 

I must know how to use my equipment so well that I don't need to think about it during the wedding.

 

I use one camera, one flash, and, yes, one flash bracket (although I want to do more non-flash photography in upcoming weddings.

 

I keep back-up cameras in the car.

 

I use a tripod ONLY when I need to take ceremony photos without flash. Otherwise I do not use a tripod ever.

 

A tripod in any other situation is just excess baggage.

 

An on-camera flash bracket is essential, in my opinion.

[mike dixon]

I very rarely use a tripod (and I shoot in the dark much more than most), but the one situation in which I always use a tripod is shooting wedding formals. Even if there's plenty of light, the tripod allows me to set up the composition, then direct my attention to posing, interacting with the subjects, and watching for small details. The technical aspects of camera function are only a minor part of wedding photography.<P>

[johnmarkpainter]

David,

 

Just do it and see...I often find myself using Fast lenses wide open @ 1/15 using 1600

speed Film. I always like to have a good bit of 80-200mm shots. It is difficult to shoot a

200mm that slow and keep it sharp (though I have pulled it off...just not easily).

 

For ME, a 50mm (even cropped) isn't long enough to get what I want.

 

As for Formals....if you can compose & focus the shot and then take the shot without

looking through the camera (Tripod/Cable Release) it is MUCH easier to observe and

interact with your Subject(s). There is a reason that Portrait Photogs have done this for

decades....it works.

[david_thomas8]

Nadine, here is a successful wedding photographer who never uses a tripod:

 

Steve Levine , apr 09, 2005; 07:52 p.m.

I have shot hundreds of weddings, and I have never shot a single frame with a tripod.

 

Have a look at his gallery. He's good.

 

No tripod?

 

Blasphemer!!!!!!!!!!

 

love,

 

Dave

[al_kaplan1]

David, they're all just jerkin' your chain and not telling you the real truth about succesful wedding shooters! You need to shoot your formals with at the very least a Hasselblad mounted on the largest heaviest Gitzo tripod you can find. A 4x5 Sinar view camera with Componon-S lenses would be even better. Bring a full set of studio strobes into the church, at least 2,000 watt seconds. ALWAYS shoot film! Always have back-up equipment for everything!

 

For your available light stuff they must be shot only in B&W, preferably a "traditional" emulsion like Tri-X or HP5-Plus, not the newer tabular grain films, and for sure not a C-41 "fake" B&W film. Make your readings with an incident light meter and to insure good bokeh get yourself a set of 1960's or 1970's vintage Leitz lenses for your Leica M rangefinder bodies since the newer Leica glass is too contrasty for proper classical rendition of skin tones.

 

Shooting third party zooms on a hand held DSLR is without doubt the mark of a rank amateur.

 

All said very much tongue in cheek ;-)

[splat]

The point is not that you must use a tripod or a bracket or a flash. The point the simply that there are situations (beyond you control) where these pieces of equipment can be helpful. Most here on photo.net would prefer to be prepared for a situation that may never happen rather then risk it.

[blueform]

Dave,

forget about the fast lenses and technical issues.

They are going to be the least of your concerns.

 

Concentrate on the practical aspects and ask yourself how you could benefit from a tripod during a wedding shoot.

 

I am sure you could discover at least three reasons where a tripod would improve your wedding coverage.

 

Regards

 

James.

[picturesque]

David, most wedding photographers carry and use tripods in challenging lighting situaitons. Some don't, but those that don't have either equipped themselves to best handle those situations and/or made stylistic or management decisions about these situations, like opting to use flash a lot or controlling where the photo takes place (not always possible, which I am sure you will find out). The fact is, there are lots of ways to photograph a wedding, but there is a general consensus among the majority of wedding photographers about most working methods, and for good reasons. This doesn't mean you should do what everyone else does just because everyone else says so. It is a valid thing to do for you to ask questions, gather information, evaluate it, encourage positive discussion and decide for yourself what to do based on your style, clients and many other factors.

[think27]

There are many opinions.. Some can get away without using a tripod and some feel a tripod is essential. Some of it has to do with your ability to remain steady. I personally don't use a tripod. I have brought one on occassion just in case but have probably used it 5 or 6 times in 15 years. I use pews, balcony ledges and I have a kind of strange way of holding my camera using my shoulder (helped a bit by using shoulderpads) and my arms and face to form a super tight and secure hold on my camera. I've shot my 80-200 2.8 Tamron and now my 70-200 2.8 IS at anywhere from a 15th to 125th hand held with good results... However, some people can't twist their bodies in such a way to form a human tripod. Some are not steady. I find a tripod to be extremly limiting and bulky and annoying. I wouldn't tell anyone my way is the best or only way though.. To each his/her own... If you have good sharp results... go for it. If not - use a tripod!