bobatkins Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 What makes you think that if there were no nudes, people would look at other images? People want to look at nudes. It's not like if there were no nudes, they'd look at just as many pictures of sheep. Maybe they wouldn't bother visiting the site at all. And how do we deal with all those supersaturated composite landscape images that are so popular. Aren't they sucking the ratings out of black and white street photography images? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tijean Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Néstor, I do not know about nudes, but I know that ratings are dropping across areas that I post to, and it is my honest belief that it has nothing to do with the nekkid women. It has to do with not wanting to put up with the whining, the belly aching, the revenge that comes from rating images honestly and leaving constructive criticism. It's about getting angry e-mails for giving a reasonably nice photo of a sunset an "3" for originality because if a straight-on, horizon in the middle, nothing out of the ordinary, picture of a sunset over not particularly amazing water is not "below average" then I do not know what is. Even after responding to the e-mail with a very friendly, rational explanation of my thought process when rating, I continued to get badgered to delete my rating (which I would?ve done just go get them off my back, but that feature has been disabled). It?s about the getting tired of being expected to leave a comment when, in all honesty, the information about what would make the photo not so horrible is in the learn section and I don?t feel like regurgitating it, or trying to teach someone to have taste. They take a picture of a bush straight on and centered with bad lighting and then get mad at the rater/commenter for not telling them that this little crop of that little rotation would make it a masterpiece, or that it?s a masterpiece already. I once had all of my photos down-rated (1/1?s across the portfolio) because I dared tell someone that the picture of their darling child would be good if the darling child was actually in focus and didn?t have a dark, distracting, horizon running behind their head. The response they posted before taking out their anger on my portfolio was ?That?s why it?s not in the fine arts category, you [explative]? The members of pnet are, it seem, collectively burnt out. No, I don?t mean your photos, and in fact find them rather interesting and well done, but I rarely go through rate recent anymore (I did a spurt of critiquing yesterday), where I would have the chance to find, rate, and comment on photos like yours. It is so much easier not to find interesting photographers through the message boards than through the As the method of just skipping those and only rating and commenting on ones I like as a solution practiced by many here, I?m just not going to do it. Imagine if everyone did that. If a horrible photo has three 7/7s from the photographer?s friends, and a great photo has a variety of ratings from people who thought that it was well conceived and interesting, then the bad photo would get more visibility and your average view would have to wade through bad photos to get to the ones many people have liked and therefore rated, though not always with a perfect score. It helps absolutely and is as destructive to this site as those annoying ?6/6! Good job!? posts from my least favorite pneter, who just happens to live in my area. (not a threat, -really-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afs760bf Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Well, just to jump in so I can get dumped on, if you look at the top rated photos page almost any hour of the day, the majority of the top rated photos are birds - some very plain bird shots, some great bird shots. Second may be a tie between macro shots and the over-saturated, filtered landscapes. So although I don't rate nudes, don't take nudes, and don't have any problem with doing away with nudes, I'm not sure that's what is taking ratings from other photos. It is very difficult to get any kind of meaningful feedback by submitting a photo for critique. I have this idea that many photographers come here to get ideas from existing photos as to how to make their photos better. Those are the photos that get the most views, other than from the voyeurism league. About the only way you can view photos at random now is to go through the "rate recent" queue, so some people rate the photos that way while they're looking. I still think we should go back to the good ole days of posting the recently uploaded photos on the gallery page so we can see a variety of photographs and photographers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cappoldt Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Hey Jessica, I know a guy you can slip a twenty-spot to, to pay that dude a visit. No really. He'll feed the guy his Canon through his nose, just for a few vials of crack, that's right. Let me know. I agree with your rant, well-said. VERY well-said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_nitsche Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Nestor: Quite possibly the greatest title to a thread I have ever read. Bravo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomade Posted April 7, 2005 Author Share Posted April 7, 2005 It looks that my point is not beeing understood exactly yet: 1.- It's NOT about eliminating all images of nudes, but about the NEW category of nudes, that makes easier to people to find them. 2.- It IS also about nudes only, and not about flowers or oversaturated sunsets, etc. Have anybody taken a look at the attached image at the beginning, or just visited the TRP classified by "ratings" for different periods and during the latest weeks as I did? If YES, it would be clear that what I'm saying is nearer to a *fact*, than to an *opinion*: more nudes shots are getting more ratings, and not necessarily as a result of mate-rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tijean Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Christopher, oh dear. I think we are both on the same very wrong page. I just reread what I posted and it appears that I need to brush up on MY English a bit (native American here). Eee. Néstor, I just don't think it would be such a problem if the abusive members had not made so many people afraid to rate. Then there would be enough people rating in clothed catagories to give everyone a good average to judge by. It may also come from the fact that the ratio of viewers to photographers in, say, landscapes, is much much lower than the same ration in nudes. Many people are interested in looking at nudes, but your average soccer mom can't take her new digicam out back and take photos of a beautiful, naked woman. Conversely, fewer people are interested in looking at landscapes, but more people take them. More nudes per rater, fewer landscapes per rater. Bob, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprouty Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 <I>"...But the NEW category of nudes, that makes easier to people to find them."</I> <P> I can find all the nudes I want with three clicks of the mouse. Click on forums, photo critique, then on nudes. How much easier do you want to make it? Do you want them advertised on the home page in capital letters? <P> <I>"...more nudes shots are getting more ratings, and not necessarily as a result of mate-rating."</I> <P> Yes that is a fact. And it is a fact because men like naked women more than birds. There is not much you are going to do about that my friend. <P> There is only one other choice: restrict nudes to "male images" only. Because it is also a fact that men like birds more than they like male nudes. <P> Personally, I like Bob's idea, now where is that "Porno" forum located again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tijean Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 I have a complaint about the Nude section. 13 of 21 are women. That's sexist! I think men should get equal time! I want more nakkid men! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cappoldt Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Jessica, I'm afraid Laurie has already requested naked men, so there are none left for you. Also - re the above - do you want me to call that guy again and tell him to forget it? His voicemail sounded a little garbled, but I think he said he's doing a stint at Ryker's anyway, so, really I couldn't have come through for you in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurie_m Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Nestor, I think we all agree that nudes get more rates than any other type of photo. I don't think we agree if the site eliminated the nude category, that would result in other photos getting a higher number of rates. The nude category is probably a big draw to the site. I know my brother (42 years old) logs on specifically to visit the nude category (he also rates them from time to time). He doesn't even bother visiting my page let alone other categories. Removing the category would simply mean guys like my brother would wade through photos looking for the nudes. The problem with fewer rates overall is that there is a reluctance to rate. The retaliation and need to justify a rate is too much of a hassle. Until the mate rate mentality changes, there will be fewer and fewer rates. The ones you do get will be of less value. The only ones left rating will be the mate raters and the trolls. It's sad isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobatkins Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 <em>How much easier do you want to make it?</em> <p> You missed Néstor's point. He want's to make them HARDER to find, so they don't dominate the ratings. They're just too popular... <p> Clearly I need more nudes in my portfolio. Volunteer models in the New York area should apply to me by email. Female only. I need to boost my ratings, not eliminate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomade Posted April 7, 2005 Author Share Posted April 7, 2005 SP, "I can find all the nudes I want with three clicks of the mouse. Click on forums, photo critique, then on nudes. How much easier do you want to make it? Do you want them advertised on the home page in capital letters? " Exactly that is what I'm trying to state: to be able to reach nudes in just three clicks is what makes most of the rates and views to go to nudes. If changing this would be a solution or not, was one of my questions in my original post. But it was NOT like this some months ago, the PROPORTION of rates going to nudes CHANGED (i.e. increased), not viewers voyeuristical nature, wich obviously remains the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprouty Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Damn, I'm always missing the point. Anyway you got work to do Bob, creating that new forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomade Posted April 7, 2005 Author Share Posted April 7, 2005 Laurie, I get your point and agree. Now, if you have more visitors like your brother that visit p.net only to see nudes images, could you please explain us why is getting harder and harder to get own images rated? Is these people replacing previous and more balanced raters, that used to rate other images aside nudes, six months ago? Or are all those previously existing raters going to nudes simply because now is easier to find them? Hard to know. But what about giving a try to my proposal for say... 3 months? And if the site doesn't want to loose that traffic... Would my other original proposal be valid, i.e. limiting to an amount of 30 or 40 the rates received in ANY image? Or does anybody has a better proposal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurie_m Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Nestor, I don't think the nudes are drawing attention away from other categories. The nude category has it's own unique following. it's probably the safest category to place rates. The photographers are so accustomed to extreme differences in rates that retaliation is unlikely. When I first joined PN, I rated much more often than I do now. I stopped rating because I got harrassed if I rated anything lower than 5 or 6. I suspect I'm not the only one who decided rating just wasn't worth the grief. If you're disappointed in the number of rates you're getting, I think you're looking in the wrong place for a solution. You propose removing the separate category for nudes. Where would you suggest the nude photos be placed? There are many photographers who specialize in nude photos. Is it really fair to them to eliminate that category? They are not the problem. Also, as Robert Brown mentioned. The separate category does, to some degree, keep the nude photos rounded up in one location. This minimizes the chances that a nude photo will be displayed when someone is browsing other categories. A real problem in some workplaces. If you're really concerned about the number of rates you're getting, you should really consider the current hostile rating environment to be the culprit, not the nudes. If things were different, I for one would rate a lot more than I do currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micheleberti Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 "<i>What's the sense in receiving a hundred rates, when other kind of shots can't even get more than 5?</i>"<p>Might be because there is a lot of people who like asses and tits more than sunsets and birds? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_smartt Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 I'm very new here and am surprised to find this amount of drama. Kind of a let down after being excited about getting some good advice (I'm a rookie photographer). I also do nudes and have only posted one. Only 1 comment though. Maybe it wasn't graphic enough to get some good attention. Anyway, why don't they just separate the ratings? Nudes should simply have their own rating portion on the site separate from all other genres. If the attention difference is that overwhelming then that eventually will have to be done or this site will loose credibility. As for the mate thing, coming from a internet software engineer from Microsoft; there is no way to avoid that unless the web admin gets directly involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken dennis Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 I just wanted to say thanks to everyone on this thread! After reading through this thread, I went and checked out some of the top rated photo's and sure enough, there seems to be enough people rating and commenting on each others photo's to make me believe something is up, and is making me lose that much more of my confidence in this site! Ken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandeha Lynch Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 She got 11 ratings - and an average of 5/7. She ain't complaining!<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomade Posted April 7, 2005 Author Share Posted April 7, 2005 Laurie, looks like you're inviting me to accept things like are now, and just enjoy the nudes -something that I of course do, as I stated at the very beginning. But that would mean that Ken is right, and in my case loosing faith on the site and its aim, would be for the first time in 4 years that I've been around here -and I've seen things, believe me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cappoldt Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Mike: "As for the mate thing, coming from a internet software engineer from Microsoft; there is no way to avoid that unless the web admin gets directly involved." Yeah, you know, I've been wondering about that, and never thought to ask before. Surely, that would be the simplest solution. Brian, will you help us please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david bohn Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Christopher you are right about the mofia thing, rate a 4/4 to one of the members and you will get slammed with 2/2 - 2/3s from people with made up accounts. No big deal though, it is quite amusing. I find that there are a lot of people doing nudes because they think it all of the sudden makes their photos "art" Same with B&W, to me it just shows me how amature they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith turrill Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 Perhaps P/N could spin-off nudes on to a new website and increase traffic and revenue. Unfortunately "www.boob.net" is already registered to another website owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobatkins Posted April 7, 2005 Share Posted April 7, 2005 <em>I find that there are a lot of people doing nudes because they think it all of the sudden makes their photos "art" </em> <p> I wouldn't bet on that being the reason... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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