beeman458 Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 Is the <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=315035&is=REG">Lacie</a> 500GB Extreme - External Firewire 400/800 Hard Drive in a D2 Case with 88MB Throughput - 7200rpm, worth adding to a computer system? They almost seem too good to be true.<p> What say you?<p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godfrey Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 I've had several LaCie drives over the years and never had any problems with them. Whether this one is worth adding to a computer system depends upon whether you need the storage space. Godfrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitmstr Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 Without knowing your intended use it's hard to answer your question. If it's for storing pictures it's overkill. If it is for making, editing movies this is the wrong forum :) Seriously though, you can buy 250gb bare drives and a couple of Firewire and/or USB2 enclosures and make yourself two drives for less than $300.00. I wouldn't advise to get very large drives for obvious reasons. Unless you have a real and serious need and you have an even more serious backup system (as in tape backup cuz a DVD won't do much for a 500gb drive) There are also SATA drives now for high speed transfer. Also, and 8mb buffer on a 500gb drive is insufficient therefore, meaningless. Finally, regardless of the theoretical speed of ANY component there's no guarantee (and in fact it almost never happens) that those speeds will be achieved within your system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobatkins Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 Not a particularly great deal. I just added a 7200rpm 250GB Maxtor drive with 16MB buffer in an external USB2/Firewire enclosure for well under 1/2 the cost of the Lacie - and that incudes shipping and paying sales tax on local purchases. As others have said, how do you back it up? I'm probably going to need a 2nd 250GB drive now just to backup the first one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aardvarko Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 > Also, and 8mb buffer on a 500gb drive is insufficient therefore, meaningless. it most certainly does make a difference - but only if you are doing a large number of small simultaneous operations, such as booting from it or launching programs from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aardvarko Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 you back it up by buying two and keeping one in the trunk of your car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl smith Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 Who's getting 88MB/s out of that? That's faster than most any SATA/PATA drive and those tend to have the upper hand in transfer speed. The actual bandwidth of the firewire connection (under ideal conditions) is greater than the hard drive will transfer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeman458 Posted February 7, 2005 Author Share Posted February 7, 2005 Godfrey DiGiorgi<p> I've had several LaCie drives over the years and never had any problems with them.<p> Whether this one is worth adding to a computer system depends upon whether you need the storage space.<p> Your above is good to know as I've had many serious HDD failure problems over the last couple of years with either IBM drives or Maxtor drives and I am in need of some dependable storage where failure isn't one of the considerations.<p> -------------------------<p> Giampiero Scuderi<p> "Without knowing your intended use it's hard to answer your question. If it's for storing pictures it's overkill. If it is for making, editing movies this is the wrong forum :)"<p> Not-a chance of me doing videos but I am wanting some worthwhile storage. One RAW D30 file converted to a 16bit uncompressed TIFF makes for a 17.7 MB file, with a Canon 10D the file size jumps up to 36 MB. I can only guess that a 1Ds file would be 36MB and a 1DsMkII file would be some 85 MB. This would mean that ten 1DsMkII images captured RAW and corresponding 16bit TIFF files would take up about a gig of space. One can see easily that if one's not careful a half terabyte would be gone in the proverbial heart beat.<p> I use a 10D but I'm going to want to step up in the relatively near (next couple of years) future and I'm trying to future cast a solution to a very contemporary issue.<p> "Seriously though, you can buy 250gb bare drives and a couple of Firewire and/or USB2 enclosures and make yourself two drives for less than $300.00."<p> But the LaCie unit looks so compact and cool:) I put together and maintain CPU boxes but if it sits up on a table I'm wanting that finished look.<p> "I wouldn't advise to get very large drives for obvious reasons. Unless you have a real and serious need and you have an even more serious backup system (as in tape backup cuz a DVD won't do much for a 500gb drive) There are also SATA drives now for high speed transfer. Also, and 8mb buffer on a 500gb drive is insufficient therefore, meaningless."<p> I'm struggling with a backup system for a pair of sixty GB HDD's, let alone 500 GB but due to the size of digital files, 500 GB seems like a minimum if one is out making captures on a regular basis. Based on what I've read about double layer DVD's, capacity has increased to 36 GB but even that pales to the capacity of currently available HDD's. Backup seems to be in the realm of the techno "ugly stepchild" category as anybody who's a techno geek knows the importance of a decent backup system. What's with that and why isn't this issue being addressed in an up front fashion by storage manufactures?<p> ----------------------<p> Bob Atkins (bobatkins.com) Not a particularly great deal. I just added a 7200rpm 250GB Maxtor drive with 16MB buffer in an external USB2/Firewire enclosure for well under 1/2 the cost of the Lacie - and that includes shipping and paying sales tax on local purchases.<p> So then the costs are almost comparable as you have twice the capacity in a single enclosure as this saves on desktop space. Worth the extra premium (a hundred bucks more) when desktop space is limited. It does seem, as you and others have pointed out, that the buffer, considering today's price of memory, is a bit anemic.<p> "As others have said, how do you back it up? I'm probably going to need a 2nd 250GB drive now just to backup the first one..."<p> Maybe someone like Ellis can weight in on the matter of why manufactures are doing such a horrible job in creating valid backup solutions which reflect the larger size drives as storage needs go up, size of drives are meeting the need but backup solutions seem to "always" be two or three years behind the curve.<p> I guess I could just add a pair of 250 GB HDD's to the CPU box and hope having two drives is sufficient effort in regard to a backup system cause with the limited nature of even DVD's, I don't know of a decent backup system short of a tape system which I'm not familiar with.<p> ---------------<p> Chris Combs<p> " Also, and 8mb buffer on a 500gb drive is insufficient therefore, meaningless."<p> "It most certainly does make a difference - but only if you are doing a large number of small simultaneous operations, such as booting from it or launching programs from it."<p> I may be using it just for off computer storage or like Bob, pick up a pair of 250GB drives for a mirror backup system using something like Norton's Ghost but a 250GB backup will take like what would seem to be forever. As it is, 30GB takes about twenty-five to thirty minutes to mirror.<p> If I install a pair of 250GB HDD's in the CPU box, they'll be used to boot and launch from. If I go off computer, they'll be used strictly for storage.<p> ----------------<p> Carl Smith<p> Who's getting 88MB/s out of that? That's faster than most any SATA/PATA drive and those tend to have the upper hand in transfer speed. The actual bandwidth of the firewire connection (under ideal conditions) is greater than the hard drive will transfer.<p> This is good to know as then transfer speed won't be a consideration.<p> It just that these darn digital files are getting so large and difficult to find storage for that it's cramping my desire to go out and shoot cause if I use the 10D in the fashion that I used the D30, the drive would be filled in no time, I'd have a stack of 3.3GB DVD's in my hand and storage/backup solutions will have become my new meaning to life.<p> "I live to backup my system." "I live to back up my system." "I live to......" :)<p> I do my due diligence by clearing out digital files that I don't need and I'm selective in the files that I do keep. Out of maybe forty shots, I whittle that down to ten or fifteen keepers and process only three to five of the total shoot. But still, this takes up an incredible amount of space if you shoot regularly two or three times a week.<p> Storage solution/suggestions?<p> Thanks for the above answers. Keep em coming please so I can make the next storage solution jump. It seems I need a tape backup with three or four 250GB/500GB drives. This sorage solution thinking, to me, seems to be excessive but at the same time it also seems to be realistic thinking if one wants to stay on top the the conundrum; how to solve the problem, not take any more pictures:)<p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran_mullen Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 Who makes the hard drive within LaCIE anyway? Bug a USB2.0 case for $30 and buy your drive separately. Most retail USB 2 enclsures do not come with a fan built in for hard drive cooling. So this would keep me away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeman458 Posted February 7, 2005 Author Share Posted February 7, 2005 Thanks for the suggestion Kieran. I may have to bite the bullet and create a desktop solution of my own using firewire as opposed to USB 2.0. I have an old system and would have to install a USB 2.0 card and I'm out of slots:(<p> Anybody have any thoughts on a pair of these as a <a href="http://www.buy.com/prod/MAXTOR_250GB_External_Hard_Drive/q/loc/450/10372298.html">Maxtor</a> desktop solution?<p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran_mullen Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 If you are out of USB ports then chances are that you are going to need more ports anyway right ? So get a "powered" USB hub This is the 5.25/CDROM/HARD DRIVE enclosure I got. I bought 3 of them and have been happy with them http://drlinky.com/?L=7C983 it seems they have a reasonably prices USB 2.0 Firewire unit with fan http://drlinky.com/?L=90171 At the time they were about $60. Portable is a bit more handy for me. If you dont have a firewire card again I would just get a USB hub since you need it anyway. I dont know if you would miss the 80 MB per second (firewire = 480 usb2 = 400) however if you are using a cheap firewire or USB card or are using the motherbaord usb or firewire you will not really get anywhere near this rate since it will slow dow your CPU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.W. Wall Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 I have had a LaCie 200GB external firewire drive for about six months. About two months ago, it crashed, taking my data with it. The local Data Doctors couldn't save it. LaCie honored their warranty by fixing it very promptly and courteously -- I believe by replacing the drive itself. So far, the fix is working fine. But I do have ongoing concerns after that experience.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeman458 Posted February 7, 2005 Author Share Posted February 7, 2005 "If you are out of USB ports then chances are that you are going to need more ports anyway right ? So get a "powered" USB hub." It's not that I'm out of USB 2.0 ports, my computer's so old that it doesn't have "any" USB 2.0 capability and I'd have to install an interface card to give the CPU box USB 2.0 but sadly, there's no more slots to give the machine a 2.0 capability. The last slot was taken up by a multiple firewire card which has three ports so I'm stuck, at the time and moment with firewire unless I want to kick the firewire out and install USB 2.0. Life's so unfair:) "This is the 5.25/CDROM/HARD DRIVE enclosure I got. I bought 3 of them and have been happy with them http://drlinky.com/?L=7C983." Looks very enticing as I don't mind buying a halfway decent looking enclosure and installing a HDD in the unit. I just want it to look like more then just a metal beige box sitting there:) "It seems they have a reasonably prices USB 2.0 Firewire unit with fan http://drlinky.com/?L=90171." I'm comfortable, as is the CPU box, with firewire; thanks for the above links. "I dont know if you would miss the 80 MB per second (firewire = 480 usb2 = 400) however if you are using a cheap firewire or USB card or are using the motherbaord usb or firewire you will not really get anywhere near this rate since it will slow dow your CPU." In ignorance, I'm using a cheap-ee firewire card that was a whole ten bucks. I'll check out the better cards as they can't be but a few bucks (under fifty bucks) more. ---------------------- J.W. Wall "So far, the fix is working fine. But I do have ongoing concerns after that experience...." Those crashes sure do put one on edge. It's a shame that the MTBF ratings are not worth the ink that was used to print the rating. I use an identical size pair of HDD's for ghosting purposes and hold a third drive off to the side for occational updating to for a deeper form of backup. It sure is a shame that even tape backup systems are so limited in size by comparison to the size of today's avaiable HDD units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_elek Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 Thomas, you're almost to the point where you should consider a new computer with a DVD writer, built-in support for firewire, USB 2.0, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeman458 Posted February 7, 2005 Author Share Posted February 7, 2005 "Thomas, you're almost to the point where you should consider a new computer with a DVD writer, built-in support for firewire, USB 2.0, etc." Yeah. But a new CPU box, stacked the way us power users like a box to be built is gonna run close to two grand (US). Waaaaaaah!!!!! :) I've already installed, about a year or so ago, a SONY DRU-500AX DVD RW +- and all that stuff. Added a second HDD with a copy of Norton's "Ghost." Been to all the manufacture's web sites and have downloaded and installed all the undated drivers and service packs, including MS's Service Pack 2 and it didn't kill the machine:) Downloaded and installed new motherboard BIOS and have the CPU upgranded to an AMD-XP 2400 CPU. Newer Creative Labs soundcard, nVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 graphics card w/128meg onboard and a 3-gang firewire card. Upgraded the memory to a gig and a half and just replaced the monitor with a new Mitsubishi 22" CRT. With one more crutch, I'm sure I can get the little beggar to give me at least one more year out of the deal, preferably until November 2006:) LOL! Did I mention I can get greedy:) The platform is so stable, I can run in and out of different programs (Photoshop CS/BreezeBrowser), web browsers (Firefox/AOL) all concurrently running at the same time with what nots running in the background like caculator/notepad, all day long and never a crash, lockup; spybot or otherwise, ever, (knocking on wood):) This puppy does nothing but hum all day long as it get's further and futher and futher behind the tech-no curve:) But it's soooooo stable and reliable at this time and point but half a Terabyte of redundant storage would be nice:) Now I'm starting to scare myself as I know what your asking of me is true and accurate but then I have to do a complete install and stabilization process. Scary thought:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeman458 Posted February 7, 2005 Author Share Posted February 7, 2005 Just loaded everything up that I spoke of, everything is currently running in the background and no freezes. The platform couldn't get anymore stable and I'm afraid to loose that stability. Siiiiiigh:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran_mullen Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 "Thomas, you're almost to the point where you should consider a new computer with a DVD writer, built-in support for firewire, USB 2.0, etc." Meh! I dont think so! Again there is not that much of a differnce to get firewire card just for an external hard drive. Maybe if you have a camcorder that suports it. Otherwise get a USB hub. Even if he got a new computer he would still need one! BTW PCI Hardware RAID Cards are only about $30. If you putting a bunch of HD's into a computer the I would suggest pulldout racks which are about $15-20 each but more importantly are metal therfore conduct heat better, have built in fans, easier for changing hard drives, and have alarms in them in case the hard drive overheats. Kieran Mullen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran_mullen Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 Its too hard to backup on DVD even dual layered. Tape drives are ok for long term storage but they are expensive. 2 HD's and RAID Card Subject: Lacie 500GB extreme D2 firewire 400/800 ? I have had a LaCie 200GB external firewire drive for about six months. About two months ago, it crashed, taking my data with it. The local Data Doctors couldn't save it. LaCie honored their warranty by fixing it very promptly and courteously -- I believe by replacing the drive itself. So far, the fix is working fine. But I do have ongoing concerns after that experience... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_elek Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 Thomas, you're right. That's a custom machine -- tricked out, in car lingo. Not sure how you'll solve the USB 2.0 issue if all of your slots are filled. Guess it's "win some, lose some" in this case ... though it sounds like you're mostly ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran_mullen Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 How many PCI slots does your computer have? 2? Bah.. Make your you computer has at least 4! (with enough space around them too) Kieran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeman458 Posted February 8, 2005 Author Share Posted February 8, 2005 Well Kieran, it seems that I have a spare slot but there's some sort of port using the outbound slot. I'll need to check when the machine is off, so I don't accidently shut the system down and see if I can live without the extra outlet port and then I can slide an adapter card for USM 2.0 into the slot and I'll see about picking up a decent, as in not cheap, firewire card and the ma-chine should be good to go for the next eighteen months:) Oh. That and I'll upgrade the two drives to some 250gig HDD's and maybe a third, 500gig desktop drive and go from there. This is like too cool:) Thanks for the suggestions guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeman458 Posted February 8, 2005 Author Share Posted February 8, 2005 USM? Been processing too many images. I ment USB:) D'oh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran_mullen Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 FYI There are combo USB/Firewire cards for about $15 http://drlinky.com/?L=9C355 That looks like the best thing to get. Also 250's are about $120 from Costco.... I woud also opt for the optional $14 4 year warranty extension Kieran Mulen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeman458 Posted February 9, 2005 Author Share Posted February 9, 2005 Thanks for the suggestion Kieran. I like the idea of a combo card for both firewire and USB 2.0. I'll research out the idea a bit more to see what the pundits have to say on who makes the faster add on boards. I'll also check out COSTCO's site as $120.00 (US) for a 250gig HDD seems like a happening price:) It's looks like I can do this system upgrade (tricking out) of the system for under three hundred bucks (US) and keep the current system current for another couple of years. This is a good thing considering the speed in which things change. I put this box together back in 2002. Three years! I think this is a record for how long I've been able to hold onto a motherboard and yet keep it current in the process; let alone for five years:) Woo-hoo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran_mullen Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 I strongly advise that anyone who decides its a good idea to pack a bunch of HD's in their system without adding extra cooling monitor their hard drives. I have had to send dozzens of hd's back to the manf for failure. Nothing to do with the vendor. I am a heavy user. :-) Hard drives WILL fail! Its just a matter of WHEN. RAID #1 simple mirroring is the easiet and cheapest option. This is what I used to keep them cool. Again pull out racks, extra rear cooling fan, aluminum case, alarm with display, locking mechanizm ATA-133 compatible... http://drlinky.com/?L=279BC I dont see the need in investing in SATA just yet... Espectially when your PC will probably not support it. Make the forks be with you! Kieran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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