Best P&S for indoor flash?

[nancychuang]

Any recs for a P&S camera that turns out particularly good indoor flash shots?

Whites not blindingly bright, skin relatively natural looking, able to capture

ambient light? Most of the best digital shots I've seen on photo.net use natural

light or are long-exposure tripod shots.

 

I've played a bit with a friend's camera, which is the Fujifilm F10 or F20, not

sure which. Great results with outdoor fill flash and decent results with fill

flash indoor well-lit places. But for darker indoor places, like bars, some

shots look good in an "artistic experimental" way, and some just look overblown.

It's possible the "intelligent flash" mode on the F30 is an improvement over the

older models, but dpreview didn't compare photos of "regular" flash with

intelligent mode or put flash photos in the sample gallery.

 

Either way, it seems the general conclusions on the various net reviews are that

the F30/F20/F10 are the best low-light performers so probably best for this type

of dark indoor flash shooting. Would anyone recommend a different camera to

research?

[jcuknz]

I thought that the F's were good becuase of their capability to work at high ISO in low light situations. The defects you speak of are inherant problems with flash and need to be overcome by correct use of camera controls, recognising the situations where automatics lead you astray and making allowance for that with EV adjustments.

 

Really you are talking about two completely different methods of shooting .. ambient and flash ... F's are good for the first but numerous cameras will do the secomd satisfactorilly if properly handled.

[nancychuang]

Well, what I meant is a camera that can get some ambient light behind the subject without the flash blowing out said subject. If a digital P&S is fully manual--if I can set apeture, manual AND amount of flash separately--that would be great. Still, it would be nice to see results for indoor dark scenes on dpreview for comparison. Thanks!

[wilsontsoi]

Any camera that allows user to control flash sync mode, flash output, and exposure compensation would do. Put camera's flash mode to "slow sync" (or "rear sync") and balance the flash and ambient light with the flash output and exp. comp. controls. You might need to steady your hand against the bar counter or wall if shutter speed drops below reciprocal focal length speed, unless you like to leave some artistic motion blur of subject. Although I use my <a href="http://www.photo.net/photodb/presentation?presentation_id=317651">A620</a>, <a href="http://www.photo.net/photodb/presentation?presentation_id=276374">G3</a>, etc. mostly with support, these cameras with user control can achieve what you're looking for. <a href="http://www.photo.net/photo/1789422">Here's</a> a sample pic with ambient and fill in slow sync. Although shot with film, the pricipal is same for digital.

[nancychuang]

Wilson, that's a wonderful shot and exactly what I'm hoping to achieve! By the way, I LOVE your photos and your shots with that A620 alone helped push me toward the digital decision. One of the reasons I'm curious about the flash thing is because I almost never use my hotshoe flash on my manual film camera...it just gets so bulky I need to be really motivated to use it. Right now the A620 is looking very good. I'm still kind of flipping between that and the G6 as prices on eBay are reasonable, but it's still around $100 more than the A620.

[fred_c1]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Wilson's A620 gallery has any flash shots.

 

Download the user manual for any camera you look up. Many digicams have idiosyncrasies: just because it has slow-sync (or Tv mode or manual shutter control), automatic flash, red-eye reduction and exposure compensation, doesn't mean all such functions are available at the same time. e.g. exposure compensation is not available on the Fuji F30 when red-eye reduction is used.

 

An ideal P&S for indoor flash would be equipped with a hot shoe and user-controllable shutter speeds. The Canon G series is a good, compact example.

[wilsontsoi]

Fred, thanks, but I didn't say that I use flash on any of the A620 shots and provided link "Here" for example of flash method I suspected that she might be refering to. Although the G6 hotshoe is a plus, one can certainly achieve the fill & ambient effect without additional external flash. I don't know about Fuji F30, but the Canon digital P&S like G3, G6, A80, A95, A620, DSLRs such as D70, D200, D2X, or film SLRs like N70, N90, F100, I know for the fact that they can do ambient/fill. I understand however that the F30's forte is in available-light shooting becuase of its high ISO performance which is achieved by aggressive, but good, in-camera noise reduction (dpreview.com has review of it, if I recall correctly.)

[fred_c1]

Wilson: keeping in mind Nancy's question and her being "sold" immediately after seeing your A620 gallery, it's obvious that she thinks flash was used ... unless she changed her mind about flash.

 

I'm also rather surprised that you have first-hand experience with so many camera models (some of which aren't even P&S cameras that Nancy asked about) that you are sure that none of them have any flash idiosyncrasies.

 

Here's another example in addition to the F30: exposure compensation doesn't seem to work on my Canon G1 with Tv and red-eye reduction at the same time. Full manual mode cannot be used indoors either, because the flash always fires at full strength.

 

A flash mounted on the hot shoe (not just a slave) is a much more versatile option. Less easy to get red eyes, more controllable, better range and a more even light than a built-in flash.

[wilsontsoi]

Dear Fred,

 

1.) I didn't sell anything to her. In fact, I started out my reply saying "Any camera that allows user to control flash sync mode, flash output, and exposure compensation would do."

 

2.) Why so surprised? We're still using a handful of those p&s mentioned in our office. Other non-P&S models were mentioned to point out again that as long as she has the control over flash sync, exp. comp., etc., regardless of camera type, (I specifically pointed out type of cameras,) it'll do.

 

3.) The G1 example certainly illustrate flash idiosyncrasy of G1.

 

4.) Sure, external flash unit is more versatile, I certainly agree. OTOH, the built-ins in P&S that has controls as aforementioned can still achieve the fill/ambient look she was aftering.

 

Cheers.

[fred_c1]

Wilson, you don't have to sell Nancy anything for her to be "sold" -- note the quotation marks I used and read her post again.

 

I agree that DSLRs are the most versatile and offer the best performance. But is that what she wants?

[wilsontsoi]

Dear Fred, I understood the quote and its implication. Thanks. Again, "Any camera that allows user to control flash sync mode, flash output, and exposure compensation would do." What Nancy really wants, I guess only her really knows. I only offer my opinion, and you, yours.

[edgreene]

Any of the Panasonic DMC FZ10/20/30/50 breed that use the OEM TTL flash.<br>Or this TTL shot with the built-in flash:<div></div>

[jsbc]

Wilson says "Any camera that allows user to control flash sync mode, flash output, and exposure compensation would do." True.

 

Any PnS that allows one to control shutter speed/ aperture, and also the flash output of the onboard camera? (I am not talking about a manual flash mounted on a hotshoe).

[nancychuang]

It seems so, although sometimes that info is a bit buried in the online reviews. I have a cast-off camera from my parents that I rarely use, a Fujifilm 3800 from 2002. It's not one of the credit-card sized P&S cameras but it's actually slightly bigger than the A620 (but slightly smaller than the G6, which does have hotshoe). It's very basic and only offers ISO 100 and no manual shutter settings, but I can change aperture and flash output manually (only 3 settings each). Of course, without control over the shutter the results are only mildly different but I figure if a camera this simple allows me to adjust flash the newer cameras should as well!

[wilsontsoi]

Hi Nancy, just thought I'd pass <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00Ijm7">these couple A620 rear sync shots</a> by you which I believe is the look you might be shooting for.