Yes: Another Mindblowing Question -- D200 and CF Cards In Practice

[james_lafferty]

I have searched, and things have come up mixed, so I'm asking point blank:

what's the best practice with CF cards with regards to deleting, moving and

copying images, and formatting?

 

I have been lugging the new D200 around and taking pics when I see something

interesting -- I get about 1 out of every 5-6 shots looking like I want to keep

it but delete the others on the spot. Someone has told me that deleting in cam

is bad.

 

Then I have also read people suggest reformatting with every shoot -- dump the

images to a hard drive or DVDROM, then reformat. Every time. Really?

 

I just figured my technique would work fine until I shoot that 240th image and

then dump them. But... as I type this I'm realising yet another piece of advice

is reformat the card when it surpasses half full.

 

Then there is a whole mishmash of "leave the card in the cam always" vs. "use a

CF reader," etc.

 

Any credence to all (or even some of) this voodoo?

 

Thanks for your time :)

 

- jim

 

p.s. Haven't noticed anything wrong with my cam yet -- firmware 1.01 -- and am

hesitant to "upgrade" to 2.0 as I am a strict "If it ain't broke..." kind of

guy. Am I losing out on anything worth the worry?

[chris_vincent2]

My process is pretty straightforward.

 

I review the shots in the camera after a sequence and any total duds, e.g. focus, movement etc I delete on the spot. Everything else stays on the card 'til I get home. Sometimes I'll have 2 or 3 full cards from a job, 4GB and 2GB, especially a wedding.

 

I use a USB card reader to transfer everything to the PC. The PC automatically makes a copy on a second hard drive.

 

I then backup the job to CD/DVD. I check the images are on the disc, file it and then go for a tea/cold beer as the mood takes me.

 

Next time I use the card I format it in the camera.

 

This might seem long winded but if its paid-for work I like to be cautious.

 

The firmware update is only relevant if you plan to use the WT-3 wireless receiver of Nikon's 'Image Authentication Software'. Having said that, firmware updates are often sequential so we'll probably have to do this one before the next. I'll do it on a rainy night in.

[marcofrancardi]

do you use more than one CF? if not, it's safer to download pics from the camera, through USB connection, for one simple reason: you avoid the risk of bending camera's pins when inserting the CF back in the camera after downloading. More than one CF? than use a Card reader only for the CF you have alreay unplugged, and live the last one in the camera. in the end, the least CF plug/unplug, lesser the risk of pins bending/breaking. as long as formatting is concerned, once you downloaded the images, formatting is faster and safer for the next session.

[Peter_in_PA]

My camera uses SD, not compact flash, but I've used plenty of cameras that use CF. And

I've been working with digital media since way before CD- writers cost four grand... and

worked professionally in the digital multimedia and digital imaging world for a lot of

years, so please forgive the length of my post.

 

1. The half full thing is just plain voodoo... but there's a grain of truth in it. I've found you

should NEVER completely fill media. So... when there's five shots left. swap. Half full?

ridiculous.

 

2. Never ever ever delete shots in-camera. I've used bad exposures before, they looked

really cool and I couldn't tell that on the 2 inch screen. Plus, more importantly, you might

accidentally delete a good one. I confess if I have a totally blown or totally black exposure,

I might delete it, but I generally don't "clean up" till after my backups are done. (I am a

sloppier shooter than you, too. I get one really great shot out of every 100 or so, and one

good one out of every 10 or 20... I should be more careful...)

 

3. I have used DVD-R EXTENSIVELY since it appeared, and it is not as reliable a backup

medium as CD. I've never lost data, because I ALWAYS have multiple backups, but DVD as

a long-term storage medium? I've had plenty of them fail, WAY more than CDs, so I still

say no. Use CD for important (read: paying) work and use two different brands of media

for two different backups. Also, keep a live Hard Disc backup if you can, too. Big Hard

Discs are cheap. (I keep backups at home AND at work...)

 

4. Always format the card in-camera, and reformat it every time. On the old D1 I had LOTS

of problems formatting the card in the PC, so I stopped doing it that way. Sometimes I

could never use a card again, but when I started reformatting in the camera... The

problems went away. I haven't tested it since.

 

5. One thing I like about SD over CF, and one reason why I think within a few years it will

be the standard for all new cameras (instead of or in addition to CF even) is that there are

no pins to break. I take the card out of my camera. If I had a CF-based camera, I might use

the usb or firewire connection.

 

I hope I helped.

[ellis_vener_photography]

<I>Then I have also read people suggest reformatting with every shoot -- dump the images

to a hard drive or DVDROM, then reformat. Every time. Really?</I><P>That's what I do

religiously, and after downloading to an HDD I back them up to another. One reason not to

delete is how can you really see anything on that little LCD on a DSLR?

[aaron l]

I shoot the D200. I check the RGB histogram to make sure everything is okay and then hammer the shutter button. I'll chimp if i have the time, otherwise I let it sit until I get home. There are so many times I've seen detail on my monitor that just isn't there in the LCD. The LCD is more compositional for me.

 

Once I get home, I download using a USB 2 or PCMCIA cardreader and then back that up to CD/DVD and always external hard disk. The external hard disk is only plugged into the wall when backing up and then the power cord and the firewire cord are disconnected. Keeps the running hours low.

 

Then I format the card in camera every time so I make sure I've cleared things off. More than once I've been out & realized there are shots on the card, more than can be deleted by hand. Naturally, I've already worked my new shoot so I'm stuck. So now I save myself the trouble.

 

I get the card to around 90-95% full then swap in a calm moment. Just like film, everything good always happened when I had 3 shots left on my rolls. I remember this bobcat....

[joseph_smith3]

I shoot with a d 200. I never delete an image in in the field. I do all that kind of work at home. While in the field I concentrate on taking the images, not editing them. Why risk deleting a winner? Plus, you can learn from looking at losers at home. Joe Smith

[conrad_hoffman]

I do pretty much what Peter and Ellis do, and think their advice is the best. I never delete anything, as storage space is cheap. You never know what image might prove interesting decades from now, that you would have deleted today. And no, I'm not too worried about losing all my images before that time comes. Correctly made and stored multiple backups are pretty reliable, and I don't expect any problems reading CDs for quite some time to come. No history with DVD-R, so I'll go with Peter's advice on that topic.

[jason_tanner]

James,

It seemed you were asking about how a CF card gets written more than practice. I would say most of what people tell you is hogwash. Even what one mentioned about swapping cards when there are a couple of shots left. If before in a camera, that person had issues, it was because the firmware for that camera had problems and did a poor estimation. The estimation on the D200 is overly conservative so I doubt you'd have a problem. The only thing I do think really matters is what one person said to avoid bending the pins which I do think is very good advice. You don't need to reformat in camera although it is recommended, but I've never had issues. I don't even reformat the card after I shoot with it usually. It sounds like a lot of people say things based on supersticion(sp?) rather than understanding the technology involved.

[Ed_Ingold]

Downloading images from camera to computer is the slowest means of transfer, followed by using a PCMCIA card adapter. Furthermore, it is a drain on batteries, and can corrupt images if the batteries or connection fails. Besides, what do you do if it takes more than one card to shoot an event?

 

Solution - get an USB or FireWire card reader. The Delkin 15-in-1 is one of the best (about $30).

 

It's a good idea to format the card rather than delete images. This gives you a clean start, and erases things the camera cannot see, including old directories. It's best to reformat in the camera, which sets up the proper directory tree. Reformatting in a computer sometimes adds recovery directories, indexing files and other garbage, which take space and may cause problems in the camera. I see no reason to use a card only to half-full (or is it half-empty). I may change cards in anticipation of events (the recessional, for example), but most often just run the tank dry. I don't put used cards back into the camera and shoot - it can mess up the sequence numbering.

 

I have upgraded to firmware 2.0 (D2x) with no problems. No problems have surfaced in the first-adopter haven - DPReview.com.

[stevea]

The only problem I have found with violating every caution mentioned is that you can lose a shot if you fill a card and don't change it. I have been shooting digital with CF cards for five years. I typically don't fill cards any more as I have two 8Gig cards. However, I always erase the entire directory of the card in the computer after I download. I rarely reformat - usually only after reading one of these threads.

 

Maybe I'm living dangerously, but I have no real consequence if something goes wrong. In the meantime, I'm saving enough time to fill another card each week.

 

Steve Abramson

[michaelbrochstein]

My "technique", which has never failed me since April 2003 (I've owned a D200, D70 and D100 and about 19GB of CF cards);

 

1. Format card in camera (everytime!).

 

2. Take pictures and NEVER delete in camera.

 

3. When card is full or its otherwise time to download (shooting session is over) then I turn off the camera, remove the card and copy images using an external USB or Firewire reader (SanDisk or Lexar) or a Delkin PC-CARD reader if I am using a laptop. I copy from CF card to hard disk using the basic copy and paste commands in Windows. Also, always remove CF card from reader properly (in Windows you should "Safely Remove Hardware").

 

4. GOTO #1 above (old fashioned computereze).

 

Again, the above 4 step technique has never ever failed me and I've used it many hundreds (thousands?) of times.

 

I also regularly backup my images from one external hard disk at home to another and then periodically backup to an external hard disk that is kept offline (and if I weren't lazy would be kept offsite.)

[phule]

Format in-camera. Even if it is voodoo, the camera knows /exactly/ what it needs in order to communicate with the card. Your OS can only approximate. Why risk anything over something as trivial as a format in-camera? It's a few seconds and it's very easy to work into your workflow.

 

I never format my cards until I have 3 backups made of my images.

[chris_leck]

Lots of good advice here. My own practices:

<ul>

<li> I delete some bad shots in camera

<li> I format the cards with the camera, but only in rare cases (such as after lending a card to a colleague)

<li> If I'm shooting action, I change the card before it's full and during a lull. Otherwise, I shoot until the card is full.

<li> I use an external card reader for a number of reasons, including transfer speed and keeping images in sequence when using multiple cards

<li> I use Nikon Transfer for uploading and let it delete all images after upload

<li>I use Sandisk Extreme III CF cards and have several Lexar Pro cards

</ul>

 

<p>I have <em>never</em> lost an image or had CF card corruption in about 100,000 images -- shooting with a D200, and before that, a D100. I've never bent a CF pin either -- I have six CF cards and sometimes shoot 10GB a day.

 

<p>I believe that all kinds of bad things can happen, and occasionally do. Maybe I'm lucky, but I don't really think so. YMMV.

[dean.wette]

If anyone is still reading this thread I have a related question. I'm shotting NEF + Normal JPEG on a Nikon D200. I have a WinXP laptop and am using Lexar 4 GB 133x CF cards with a PC Card adapter. I find that reading files from the card using Windows Explorer is very slow. If I use Nikon PictureProject Transfer with the PC Card that goes faster, and it seems even faster if I use Transfer and a PTP connection to the camera.

 

My question is, if I get a FireWire or USB2 card reader, will that be significantly faster than using the PC Card adapter or PTP camera connection?